I can still remember this moment as if it happened yesterday.
I was watching a NY Giants game on CBS TV during the end of
the 1983 season. The Giants were awful that year, going 3-12-1. As the “Jints”
were about to finish another bad loss, Pat Summerall asked John Madden where he
would start to rebuild a team from scratch.
Madden didn’t wait a second with his answer: “offensive line.”
I was just 13 at the time, and his answer was confusing to
kid who always thought football was about QB’s, RB’s and maybe a sack master
D-liner or two.
But Madden went on to explain that without a decent O-line,
everything else breaks down on a football team.
When the offensive line isn’t working, everything else on
the team starts to break down.
The QB gets harassed and he starts to look terrible. The
running game can’t get the job done. The defense ends up back on the field way
too long. You lose games.
Madden made the simple point that there is no one unit on a
team that’s more important than the offensive line. And he was right.
Columbia’s troubled teams of the recent past have all been
plagued with weak offensive line play.
When Norries Wilson took over in 2006, the lack of
experience on the O-line was shocking. By 2009, the Lion O-line was a lot
better but even though Wilson had been a star O-lineman in college and even
though he had successfully coached the front five at other schools, Columbia
was never able to field a consistently strong O-line for more than a season or
two.
Pete Mangurian did not inherit a great offensive line
either, BUT the cupboard was much less bare for him than it was for Wilson six
years before. His first order of business was to mysteriously marginalize and
bench Scott Ward, CU’s lone returning All Ivy O-lineman in favor of much
younger and less experienced players. And all of that was BEFORE the “grand
experiment” of using lighter and supposedly stronger lineman began.
Like Wilson, Mangurian comes in with specific experience
coaching offensive linemen… in his case in the NFL. But this experience has
yielded much worse results. I feel for CU O-line coach Ed Argast, who I
believe is probably being micromanaged by Mangurian and rendered almost
useless.
I realize Fordham was a beast of a team to block. Monmouth
was a formidable opponent too. And I know Princeton is no slouch… but if we don’t
see real improvement this week on the O-line, (and by “improvement,” I mean
giving the Lions a chance to win), then we’re officially in a crisis mode in
the specific area where we all knew
Columbia needed to improve the most coming into this season.
And if we don’t see different play calling to ease the
O-line pass protection weakness, we may be witnessing a dangerous insanity in
action on the sidelines. Putting our players in harm’s way like this simply
because the coach can’t or won’t make a change to his system is criminally
negligent because the safety of his players is at stake.
I know the Columbia football fan base isn’t huge, but this
blog has always been solid proof that it is not dead. So I ask you: how much
failure are you willing to accept in the one
area where the Head Coach promised he was working the hardest? Will you sit
by and still prescribe more waiting if our QB is sacked 5-6 times against
Princeton on Saturday? Or will you demand that something be done?
This current scenario is EXACTLY what I was worried would result
from the secretive, defensive, yes men-surrounded coach search process that
yielded the Mangurian hire. Am I calling for his firing already? Of course not…
BUT the parameters and the specific problems need to be publicly identified for
anyone who isn’t listening.
Dianne Murphy
needs to be put on notice by someone other than just me. The hiring process for
Mangurian was not acceptable by any reasonable standard. Her only saving grace
would have been if Mangurian could turn the team around. He isn’t doing that
yet, and worse… we’re seeing a regression in the most key part of the team.
Notice that I am not even demanding wins anymore; I’m
demanding SANITY. It’s insane not to change the offensive strategies to protect
our players and avoid 30+-point losses.
The number for Bellevue Hospital in NYC is (212) 562-4141. If we don't see a lot more running plays Saturday at Princeton, it's time to call that number and get the guys with the white coats and the nets to take the coach away.
The number for Bellevue Hospital in NYC is (212) 562-4141. If we don't see a lot more running plays Saturday at Princeton, it's time to call that number and get the guys with the white coats and the nets to take the coach away.
This is getting ugly fast, and it has nothing to do with the
fans and little to do with the players. This is about the coaching, the
administrators and the few, but sadly all too influential alumni apologists for
them.
If you're a parent or a fan who thinks this is all too harsh, let me be the first to ask you to call Trevor McDonagh's dad and explain why you think he should keep getting the snot kicked out of him every week. Call Sean Brackett's dad and explain why it was okay for him to get batted around last season. Call Brett Nottingham's parents and explain why it was okay for him to run for his life right off the bat and end up with a broken wrist, (and frankly, he's lucky that's all it was. On another play or two, it looked like he was going to lose his head... literally).
We all get that we still have a young O-line that could get better in time. But what none of us should get or accept is a system that doesn't properly account for that weakness. The emotional pain every fan in the stands felt when McDonagh was strip sacked on Saturday wasn't just because of the result of the play, but it also because of the play call itself.
If you're a parent or a fan who thinks this is all too harsh, let me be the first to ask you to call Trevor McDonagh's dad and explain why you think he should keep getting the snot kicked out of him every week. Call Sean Brackett's dad and explain why it was okay for him to get batted around last season. Call Brett Nottingham's parents and explain why it was okay for him to run for his life right off the bat and end up with a broken wrist, (and frankly, he's lucky that's all it was. On another play or two, it looked like he was going to lose his head... literally).
We all get that we still have a young O-line that could get better in time. But what none of us should get or accept is a system that doesn't properly account for that weakness. The emotional pain every fan in the stands felt when McDonagh was strip sacked on Saturday wasn't just because of the result of the play, but it also because of the play call itself.
So let’s just be clear about what any sane person wants to
see for Columbia football in the next 2-3 games:
-O-line play needs to improve
-Play-calling needs to change to adjust to the O-line
situation
Simple as that.
If we don’t see this, then something is very, very wrong
here and it needs to be fixed.
There is no “W” in “system,” (unless you turn the “M” upside
down).
84 comments:
As a ex-Columbia athlete but a current Columbia student, Diane Murphy's long overdue for the bounce. Whole department needs a turnaround, aside from the cosmetic improvements to Baker.
Nothing will really improve until she goes. Bollinger may not care if we ever win, (he doesn't), but how about the physical safety of the players? She needed to be fired 4 years ago.
Doesn't Princeton have Caraun Reid and another dlineman that is more than likely a draft pick?
Yes. And so that's yet MORE reason to see real change in the play calling. If we don't get it, let's make sure we have Bellevue on speed dial because someone will need to be committed.
Jake.. Lets hear your plays that the coaches should be calling?
More running plays. A lot more. That would be a good start. By the way, the number for Bellevue is (212) 562-4141. I have it on speed dial for the Princeton game.
Why all of this talk about Wilson? He is gone. He didn't do well and you keep comparing him and bringing him up. Also Ray Telliar? That was so long ago. Who keeps talking about this? Why? It has nothing to do with now except that Wilson didn't leave a lot at the line position when he left as far as recruits.
So if we run the ball and they crowd the line that is a good thing?
What if we run the ball and we make yards? It's not like that's happened... oh wait, it has in both games so far. We should stop doing what works so we can worry about what might happen in PU crowds the line.
And if they crowd the line looking for runs, it will buy our QB's a second or two more time when we surprise with the pass. Simple stuff, unless you're a coach obsessed with impressing the NFL guys who fired you in the first place.
Regardless of weather you like Mango or not he's the head coach at columbia right now so if I were you I would suck it up and start supporting the program. Provide feedback all you want but rallying for his replacement after the second game of the season is ridiculous. Im not saying improvements don't need to be made because I agree that they do- which is a normal thing in every football program. I would like to see a win as much as every other alumni but right now we need to support the team instead of tearing them down. BLOW AWAY THE DARK CLOUDS PEOPLE! Its time to start supporting our boys in blue and their coaches too! ROAR LION BEAT PRINCETON!!
Jake stop being an emotional jackass.
"unless you're a coach obsessed with impressing the NFL guys who fired you in the first place"
Are you kidding me?!? Grow up. You sound like an idiot.
Jake, i think you make valid points across the board. Ultimately the players safety is of paramount importance and we certainly have witnessed a lack of utility in that area.
as far as the blogger asking about plays, Jake is right. wehave shown an ability to run and that should buy some time. Also, not a novel idea, but how about getting the QB out of the pocket on roll outs and throw in some screens, underneath crossing patterns, wide receiver screens. the list can go on.
Anyone who knows Mangurian knows the Tampa Bay firing and his inability to ever really move up on any NFL staff DEVASTATED him. It's hard to believe his tenure here at CU can be completely divorced from his desire to prove all the folks who spurned him the NFL wrong. I'd say the best way to do that would be by winning, but apparently the "system" is coming first. Let's hope I'm wrong. Let's run the table and go 8-2.
for the emotional jackass and dark clowd blower..jake is merely stating his opinion on his blog. i dont think he is that off base. he has never said he doesnt support the program or kids.
I have never seen any notion of that in anything Mangurian has ever said so I would love to see your sources Jake. PLEASE SHARE
Jake,
You and some of the bloggers should get together and co-write some Stephen King type novels
Just for accuracy, someone who comments here is a "commenter" or a "poster." A "blogger" is someone who actually writes and maintains a blog. So, we only have one "blogger" here.
uhm, pete went from the pro's to Columbia...i am sure that was the path he wanted to choose! NOT
Plain & simple Marcorus Garrett is #2 in the Ivy League in total rushing yards with 240 on thirty carries or 8 yards per rush. Garret needs to touch the ball at least 25 times per game in my opinion in order for Columbia to win. The defense is good but when your on the field to long defenses no matter how good tend to run out of gas. An effective running game with a back like Garrett sets up the play action pass.
Exactly.
"Simple stuff, unless you're a coach obsessed with impressing the NFL guys who fired you in the first place."
Just for accuracy, the man coached in TWO SUPER BOWLS. No other head coach in the Ivy even played D1 football (let alone in the SEC)and ZERO had NFL careers - except one who was briefly with the Bengals...but that's not worth even mentioning. Seems ludicrous to state the choice in head coaches was a poor one, and that "the process was not acceptable". Now you have sources on the "fishy" hiring process too?
Anyone who knows Mangurian (which you obviously DO NOT) knows he isn't looking for peer approval. And you certainly have ZERO sources to be making such claims of "devastation" and "desire". Have to agree with the post above - this type of writing from the "only blogger" here would make for a great Stephen King novel indeed.
Now here's where you really lost me:
"The number for Bellevue Hospital in NYC is (212) 562-4141. If we don't see a lot more running plays Saturday at Princeton, it's time to call that number and get the guys with the white coats and the nets to take the coach away." Not only did you make this awful statement, but then you decided to trim it down to 140 characters and tweet DIRECTLY at the CU twitter account. 1. I find "your joke" incredibly offensive, especially to someone who has a family member with psychiatric issues and receives excellent treatment from Bellevue. Your mother should be ashamed at your lack of class.
2. Recruits see those tweets. You want the team to get better, but yet you post such a rude threat for every 17 year old to see?
Look, I have read the blog. Your writing is good, and when you are not being a jerk you can have great content and I even get great joy out of reading your posts. But you have gone too far Jake. You make statements that have no facts in today's post - without disclaimer and with absolute confidence. Your tweet (and longer version) is incredibly insensitive and should be seen as a threat to someone's well-being. Have you lost your mind?
Oh and I won't be anonymous because we all know you HATE that.
Sincerely,
Walter Francis
Inwood Resident (55 Park Terrace East)and Lion Fan
Walter:
The pee wee football league plays near you in Inwood Hill Park.
In THIS sport, the adults are going to say mean things after we lose by combined scores of 89-21. There's something wrong with Mangurian if he continues to run the same offense in the coming games. Yeah, like mentally ill wrong. Maybe the guys at Bellevue can help us avoid another injury if this continues.
And your sanctimony is incredible. I suppose you also call the people at Cocoa Puffs to complain every time they do a "cuckoo for cocoa puffs commercial." You're not really offended by what I wrote, you just really like Mangurian, which is fine, but you ought to be honest about it.
Or maybe you like losing and seeing the team go backward?
In that case, I'm calling Bellevue on you.
Madden's comments are spot on. It is no accident that two of the best offensive linemen ever, Gene Upshaw and Art Shell, played for him.
Or look at a great Columbian who had a distinguished NFL career: George Starke. The line that he played on featured Mark May, Jeff Bostic, Russ Grimm, and Joe Jacoby. Those Redskins won lots of games.
Charles Dewey Cole, Jr. CC'74
The 8-2 Lions of 1996 did not have really any decent offensive skill players. But the O-line was very good behind Randy Murff and with that incredible D, it was enough to win most Saturdays.
I think all the spots on the Nathan's hot dog committee are occupied, but to those keeping a list of next in line, i think Walter's name should be on the list.
The celebration of failure embodied in the hyper-sensitivity of those who refuse to a) criticize the coach and b) allow OTHERS to criticize the coach... is amazing.
Good one, Jake!
And in THIS sport, players get injured. Maybe you should try that Pee Wee League in Inwood Hill Park if you can't handle it.
And I think it's obvious that I like Coach, I never said I didn't. HOWEVER I'm glad you evaded all my questions regarding your sources, and still name zero facts. Thanks for bringing up Cocoa Puffs, though - great cereal.
I would like to discuss the advisability of a game plan which shortens the game. The means running the ball until they stack the line of scrimmage and open up a short passing game. We need receivers who can run precise patterns and catch the ball. We should also use a two back set with a FB or an H back lined up to provide maximum protection. Case in point during the Fordham game was one Olinger blitz in which the RB absolutely leveled him with a perfect block. The defense is good enough to win if we can do something to even out the time of possession. On an unrelated note, I for one would prefer to discuss football issues
oldlion makes a good point that we should discuss football issues: what we can do to improve (plays, players, coaching or otherwise)
The hiring process produced a coach whose team:
played Fordham and Penn very close, beat Yale, Marist and Cornell.
Of course, the various problems with the O-line this year are evident. And, play calling to work around them is a possible remedy. The Pr game should reveal what, if anything, can be done.
Nonetheless, receivers have to catch throws, ball carrying must be significantly improved.
Jake
Have you ever met Coach Mangurian? You seem like you know him very well and are around him a lot? Do tell?
The H-back set with Nick Durham in that position worked well on Garrett's second TD. We should use that set a lot more. Durham can burn a D once in a while with a catch out of the backfield as well.
I've been in close quarters with him at numerous press conferences, etc. He hasn't granted my requests for a private audience. He seems plenty erratic at some of these events. My sources in Tampa Bay media confirm this assessment and I trust them based on what I know. This would all be endearing quirkiness if we could win, but we're not winning. So time to win. Put up or shut up.
Jake,
I think that the blogging thing has gotten to you. Our CU team has been the doormat of the league for FIFTY YEARS.
This post is way F'ing crazy. Soon you will be calling the plays from section number 4! Seriously man; you sound like you are losing it. Maybe you should call Bellevue yourself.
Got it... we're supposed to accept losing because we have always lost, understood.
For whatever it's worth, Walter -- Teevens played in the CFL.
Only Blogger, the axe you're grinding is getting bigger everyday.
Jake, I'm your friend and long-time fan, but I have to agree with the previous "Anonymous" who said "you are losing it." You're creating more divisiveness than unity, more bad than good. Your frustration and anger are out of control. Try some meditation, you need it.
Jake,
You're starting to sound like Howard Stern.
Jake, I feel your pain. This loosing tradition is unacceptable. Been going on way too long. Very hard for me to believe the administration is OK with this, and they are! Otherwise there would me some changes made in the Athletic Dept.
Employees of the AD and friends of the HC will NEVER accept any criticism whatsoever of the AD or HC. Their defense of the appalling record of the AD and HC is laughable. When will they agree that a change of regime is necessary? After 10 more losses? 20more? Do we have to give the HC six years like Wilson? If you're an employee of the AD, no number of losses will ever justify a housecleaning.
The players hate Mangurian. Anybody notice the absence of talented WR Isaiah Gross? Player/parent intel has it that he quit because he couldn't stand playing for the lunatic. He doesn't inspire the guys. He stands on his pedestal and does not promote the good in each player. These guys need a leader who they can trust. I think that may have been why Norries was able to come up with more production with less talent. Although the teams had more losses than wins, the guys believed in the team.
I am a former player and met mangurian. I would just say that I found him not to be a person I would want to be around.
That being said, nothing jake said lacks truth. His former players at Cornell want to beat him and, quote unquote, would not go out of their way to help him. That is first hand from several players.
However, I read these lines and find that I agree with jake. The mod squad that supports this administration comes on and lays out a few pathetic lines to try and take away what jake has tried to put on here in an open dialogue about the football team. He offered an opinion and his view.
If I commented on every opinion that this and past administrations and coaching staffs had done I would still be insulting people.
Get a grip, the coaching blows and he is unapproachable and the administration has a proven record of hiring the least accomplished people in the major sports. In other sports like baseball/tennis/fencing etc they have done a great job. It occurrs to me that luck has played a integral part of those hires.
So for all you polyannas complaining about the ability to voice and opinion, go out and create your own blog. Otherwise voice a an opinion but don't insult the person who created a venue.
In Jake's defense, Dartmouth, Princeton, and Yale have all recently spent years in the league basement and were able to climb out in short order. Why can't Columbia do the same?
Not this year.
One word: Rebuilding!
This is exactly what you get when you ostracize the upper classes. Not "your guys"!!
Not gunna comment on the X's and O's of the system as I am not qualified.
But am qualified to comment on group dynamics and team building. It didn't have to be this bad. Very immature and naive approach with predictable results.
Jake - keep up the candid assessments...the hiring of Mangurian based on the AD's contact with him when they were at Cornell was a huge mistake; Columbia needs a young, enthusiastic coach who can lead these young men; a coach who can be respected for his unselfish regard for them; Mang. appears to be a narcissist who is unstable. What a combination !!!
I have spent sometime with Mangurian and I have come to find this- if you do what he asks of you too he is a great coach and knows his stuff. If you cant do that then obviously he's going to be on your ass and you probably wont like that (who would) but when you follow the system there are positive results.. that being said I am confident he will produce wins
How many games have you guys gone to over the past 10 years? Now ask Jake the same question... Don't forget, Jake was the voice of the Lions for several years. I would venture to say that he knows more about athletics and CU football than 99% of you who object to his PROFESSIONAL insight.
Why should we accept this losing as a part of our culture? I say BRAVO Jake for standing up to that incompetent athletics department and narcissistic Pete. The fact that Jake questions the status quo only reinforces his commitment to football and athletics!
I for one thank you for this engaging forum.
The disparity in views of Coach M. is really something. Certainly the most alarming is the poster who said the players "hate" him. Yet at least one player's parents say he is well regarded. Can the "hate" post be substantiated by anyone else, especially a player? (anonymity would be very acceptable). If that's true it would help to explain the terrible blowouts and reveal, sadly enough, that we still don't have the right guy. As an earlier poster said, it will take a "special person."
I am confident he will not produce wins.
The other day I looked at the bio of a man named Hugh Freeze, who is in his second year at Univ of Mississippi. I saw them beat Texas on youtube. Mississippi had a losing record the year before Freeze arrived, then he immediately turned it around in his very first year. He has done this everywhere he's been, high school, college, whatever. The sad thing is, this is the kind of guy we need at CU and this is the kind of guy we will NEVER get. A guy like that would not be accepted at CU nor would he ever get involved with a program that, historically, is one of the worst if not the absolute worst in the history of football. It's a complete disconnect on both sides.
So where does that leave us? Can you believe they had Chip Kelly and missed him? I have followed CU football since the 60s and I will always respect and support the players, but it's a masochistic enterprise.
I contend that it will NOT take a special person, rather, it will take a competent person! You don't have to sell Columbia or NYC, kids are begging to come here! We need a coach that can get the most out of these kids... Tom Gilmore! Oh wait, he's not from cornell! Nor is he from the University of Denver.
I wish the Nathan's Hot Dog Committee would stand up for ONCE and do the right thing. If not, you guys are all a bunch of puppets!
Four years ago dartmouth was in the basement... Three years ago Princeton was in the basement. Last year, Yale was in the basement... Now ALL programs are leaps and bounds ahead of us. It is shameful! Bad coaching all around! Should we blame the coaches, or the morons who consistently hire them?
Guys-
As a former All-Ivy player from the past, I am sickened by what is happening to "our" football program.
This coach could give a rip if any of us came to homecoming.
He sends out alumni marketing material asking for donations with the tagline saying..."we will forget the past." Since that piece of "marketing garbage" i have taken my donations to zero.
Bill Campbell and Diane Murphy...are you listening?
Zero.
Zero donations....
Zero wins this year...
Zero confidence....Mangurian has to go.
Nice!
I don't believe that the school sells itself. That is nice in theory, but at my high school the ivy's came knocking and CU wasn't the first pick for almost anybody. The program has to be sold and the coach has to sell. However, the coach has to know what they are doing.
I am also an all-ivy player from the past and I won't donate and am not sickened, but saddened by what has become of alma mater. The whole way it is run is just something out of the twilight zone. It doesn't have to be this hard, but we cannot get out of our own way. I wish the best for the kids, but know once they graduate they will not have that network of colleagues like the other schools do nor wil they have that close knit group of former players.
And, unfortunately, I think Princeton is going to take us behind the woodshed.
I met pete and, in my opinion, he is a coach that I would never play for. The ego pushed me out of the room and his total lack of interest in the alumnae was an insult. Unlike some of you, I couldn't care less if he coached in the pro's or pop warner...if the guy doesn't have "it" I am not going to follow him. He doesn't have it or anything resembling "it".
And that disaster know as Dianne with her spock like outfits should fall on her sword and quit. Let a real AD and football coach come in and make an attempt at turning this thing around.
19 months ago you people were in love with this guy.He was going to do this and that.
I shook my head regarding the things said about Norries.Well you pushed him out of the way.This is what you reap.
I don't know Pete other than his public comments but from what I can tell about his personality and motivations for coaches in general, it is always about having a passion for the game. Pete did have a taste of success in the NFL but the fact remains, he was not only available, he was eager for the CU job. He's 56, not old by coaching standards. If he was plugged in and a commodity he would still be in the NFL OR in an OL or even offensive Coordinator role at a DI program. He's not.
Also, when he came to CU he did not have a waiting list of colleagues to fill out his staff. I can dig out the youtube video but ti was one of his first as HC and he explained in detail how he put his CU staff together. FRom the sound of it, he knew NOBODY on the staff prior to getting the HC gig at CU. Not a one. So that right there tells a story.
Like I said, I don't know Pete for beans but it is clear to me he is unwilling or unable to adapt to the FCS competition. I am willing to bet he was chosen for this position because of his nice resume, NOT because the interviewers asked the right questions. This is all playing out. Pete is totally at a loss to evaluate the opponents and come up with better game plans or he did not hire the right people to help him do that.
Ed Argast was actually retained because the players lobbied Pete for it. If he is being micromanged, that is one very humble guy since Ed is very experienced in his own right. Nevertheless, the OL is not up to standard so Ed has to go as soon as possible.
WOW,after catching up on reading all of this, I can see all of you nay sayers have been very busy. I have met Mangurian on several occasions. He is very focused and professional and very straight forward. He expects results,demands excellence and is working hard to turn the program around. I remember at his press conference that he said it was going to be painful at times in the future. This is the painful part I am afraid. Lets give this guy a chance to make Columbia a winner!
A lot of you are getting very personal about your digs. Can we be a little more professional with the comments? That includes you Jake.
^ you hit it on the head. It's the temperament that is a bad fit. OF COURSE every head coach worth their druthers expects high results. How you get that out of your athletes is the key insight. Pete has no clue how to motivate these student athletes. That is very sad considering his vast experience. Professionalism has nothing to do with it. We have to overachieve to win. We don't need a drill sergeant, fatherly discipline type. We don't need a guy saying "I told you what I want now do it" You need a guy and a staff getting the players to another level through much more holistic methods.
Ok, cat's out of the bag. I'm in California so that is my approach.
Pete hasn't had the same amount of time the D, PR coaches had.
That's what happens when you get blown out and your game planning goes up in a puff of smoke. You get scrutinized and critiqued on the internet.
Hey Wingman
Maybe they can all sit around and sing KumbyYah and mediatate about winning. Maybe that will work. Come on,be real ! He is a football coach. He has worked for three of the best coaches who have ever coached the game. He has been a line coach, Offensive coordinator,head coach,tight end coach. He has been to two super bowls,two pro bowls,numerous college bowls, several years of playoffs. I think the guy knows what he is doing.
Not a fan of Kumbaya but I do like the meditation idea.
Maybe he should demand excellence from himself.
Numerous bowl games, super bowl, blah blah blah. A lot of coaches have been to those games and haven't been great coaches once they get elevated. Pete has never been great at the college level...yes, that includes cornell.
What is right in front of us is that we are getting pounded, have lost 2 key players in the first game and have been outscored 2-1 since he has been coach. We are weakest at the position level he is known for and all I hear are god damn excuses. This has been the way for too long. I have met the guy too and he is just that, another guy, not "the" guy. I don't know if we will go winless, but what I do know is that the path set so far is unacceptable. Yes, there are going to be "hard" times, aka an excuse to let me slide when things go poorly. I have yet to hear him say it has been his fault. A great coach steps up and says I did not have the kids ready...a good coach says we weren't ready or my system is fine the players have to adapt. As far as I know, whatever system he is running has never worked in the past so it is really tough to buy into the idea that it is the kids and not the system.
Let's bury our heads in the sand and say everything is ok and this week we are going to get them. When is it enough? How many years does this have to drag on?
Enough all ready, the line should be clearly visible in the sand.
wrote someone: In Jake's defense, Dartmouth, Princeton, and Yale have all recently spent years in the league basement and were able to climb out in short order. Why can't Columbia do the same?
some numbers
Surace's record
'10: 1-9, 0-7 in the league
'11 1-9, 1-6;
'12 5-5, 4-3
Mangurian '12 3-7, 2-5; '13 TBA, or the future lies ahead
What were the comments when the Lions beat Marist, Cornell and Yale last year?
Guys, do you know what happens when losers face adversity? The answer is in Jake's blog and the majority of the comments here. Judgment goes out the window, panic sets in, and people start pointing fingers and finding someone to blame. You did it when Wilson's last team got decimated by injuries and suffered the consequences. You're doing it now. That makes you poster boys for the "culture of losing" you've been carping about. You can do better. Much, much better. And the team deserves better.
I have been in a room where Mangurian openly mocked the players he inherited (not in front of them, of course). Class act who cares about his kids, huh? But, he has the unequivocal support of Murphy who has staked her legacy and massive ego on him succeeding. She turned down many very impressive, young candidates for the job. This is on her more than anything.
i dont think it is losers panicking, but more people who have been through it recognizing the what they already know will not work
What has being at the Super Bowl got to do with coaching at Columbia? The whole idea is laughable. You don't have to motivate professional players. You don't have to teach them. In some ways it's a much easier job.
Al's Wingman, singing Kumbaya meditating are great solutions, but I'd like to try this "Kumby Ya" and "mediatation". Didn't they cover the New Age in Contemporary Civilization?
Not to defend Mangurian necessarily, but Mitch S., you must be watching the CFL. The NFL is rife with ego, work ethic and motivational problems. And the players do need to be taught, albeit at a higher level. If that weren't the case, there would be greater performance parity and every coach would be a success.
Not to defend Mangurian necessarily, but Mitch S., you must be watching the CFL. The NFL is rife with ego, work ethic and motivational problems. And the players do need to be taught, albeit at a higher level. If that weren't the case, there would be greater performance parity and every coach would be a success.
Jake- let's stop this insanity bc it's clear some of these folks don't understand the game.
Can you do a poll tomorrow on poster's over under on the number of wins this season? That would be fun and say a lot ....
PS...didn't mangurian say about a month ago that a program shows the greatest growth in season 2...?
I DO advocate meditation but not as a group activity in football. Let me clarify a holistic approach. It runs opposite to the old school Pete M is from. Coaching is not about yelling and being an authority figure. It's about helping people get the most of themselves. The days of bear bryant, woody hayes and these guys who think football is all about toughness is way past its usefulness. To me, I can read into what's going on that Pete doesn't get it. He doesn't know how to relate to college students. He doesn't know how to motivate and he is at a loss how to get this group to be an actual team. He chides them for making mistakes on social media but he has no solutions other than benching guys.
Look at what Jim Mora Jr did in season 2 at UCLA. There is a winning attitude there now. That changed from a tailspin. Sure, lots of scholarships, perks and what have you but look at his coaching approach. Was he in everyone's face to get it to turn around? Not at all. Lots of other examples as well not as big money as UCLA.
Get a coach who can actually coach people and student athletes is my point.
Wingman,
football has always been about toughness, and it always will be. The sport is about mental toughness and discipline ask any coach young or old they will tell you that.
also the winning attitude is partially the responsibility of the community surrounding the team- so if we are going to dive into that we need to take partial responsibility as a community and need to work to change that- so there, the team has their things to work on and we have ours!
i think the toughness wingman is speaking of is in regards to a coach being a hard ass rather than discipline and mental toughness. they are two entirely different things.
as far as the community goes, as a former player, i played for the team and the fans in the stadium and myself. i could have cared less about the rest of the community. if they didnt support it that was their choice, neither bad nor good, but their choice.
My two cents:
1. I applaud Jake for reminding us that losing football need NOT be the normal state of affairs at Columbia
2. We are coming off two lopsided loses : can we make adjustments to our game plan to be competitive? Good coaches do.
3. Currently we are judging Mangurian on an incomplete body of work. Clearly people have a right to be frustrated with the disaster that seems to unfolding, but I feel that we are not as bad as our record shows and we will get better.
My son who played for a short time under Coach M, found it to be a shoe in the wrong house.
How many players have left the program for one reason or another since Coach M's hiring? Has anyone truly asked those young men why, outside of a single exit interview form given to each player? Some of these young men who left the program did not leave because of hating the game of football after 13-15yr of playing the game they love, nor because how the system they came from in high school was significantly different from CU plays, but the I believe it has much to do with the coach. An ex-NFL coach who was always let go from previous NFL positions, never rehired at larger D1 college football program, and other then a couple successful years at another D1-AA school has not proven he can win and more so coach while also being a true mentor and leading young men who attend such a prestigious university. Read what other NFL and College players under this coach have said about his personality.
After reading much of what others have written and our alumni also have higher aspirations and expectations, it's time to start putting a search committee together sooner then later. The excuse of having previous recruiting class players on his team will get old and fall short on those truly reading what the real issue is.
Al's Wingman, I agree 100% with you. Which is why I wrote the note above this note. This young men were brought up in a different era, they have a much different and in many cases a more mature aspect of life and work, yet they do want to play football with such passion.
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