Day-to-Day work and updates on the Ivy football season will continue on this blog. But to make sure the emergency situation Columbia football and Columbia athletics are under remains on the forefront, the following extremely common sense demands will be posted on top of every new post on this blog until changes are made:
We must:
1) Replace Dianne Murphy as Athletic Director right away
2) Replace Pete Mangurian as Head Football Coach the moment the season ends
3) Bring in an outside consulting/expert group to make the replacement hires and evaluate the positions and effectiveness of everyone in the athletic department.
4) Do NOT allow anyone who has had a leadership position or position of influence in any past hiring process to participate or interfere in any way with the overhaul process.
Please call President Bollinger at 212-854-1754 as soon as possible and asked to be connected to his office. Please respectfully ask that Murphy and Mangurian be let go as soon as possible.
You can also email: officeofthepresident@columbia.edu
In the past few days, several student publications have either joined the call to removed Head Coach Pete Mangurian or have come close to it.
The best was this piece was published in the Columbia Spectator by Melissa Cheung last week. There will be more to come.
"The Lion" blog published this interview with me yesterday where I state the obvious.
While current student support for the team has been on the wane for years, when the students who do care about the program speak out the administration listens.
This has to stop. Dianne Murphy and Mangurian need to go, and as soon as possible.
Stop the madness. Stop the excuses.
Tomorrow or Friday, the Spec will publish a letter they asked me to write making my case for the removals. I will link to it here when it goes online, but the gist of it is that Mangurian is now deliberately putting our scholar-athletes in harm's way. Murphy brought him here with an unacceptable hiring process and for that alone she should be dismissed. The fact that she has not intervened already and removed Mangurian is bad enough.
63 comments:
Jake, there is more to say in your bill of particulars on Murphy. The comments by Rich Forzani '66C are particularly insightful. The next football coach should be selected by the next AD. That means that time is of the essence.
PM''s silence about his methods and results speaks volumes. He knew he didn't have a QB ready to step in for Nottingham if needed. That's a major flaw right there.
Then with the Fordham opener completely out of reach, he left Nottingham in late in the game though our QB was being pounded. Result--No QB for the entire season. PM should be fired for that alone. Hell, Harvard removed its brilliant runner after ONE period either out of pity for CU or to spare him from injury, but PM couldn't do that with his star transfer QB from Stanford after the game was lost? It's lucky we haven't lost more QBs.
The amount of kale and arugula in the student dining halls is much more important to Bollinger and Murphy than a woeful football program...and other sports too.
Cross-country is a fine sport and I salute our fine students who excel in it. Bollinger, Murphy and Mangurian should try it--run all the way across our country and stay there.
teacher mike 196
General Electric use to say that "Progress is our most important product." Ain't no progress in Pete's house. The scholar athletes just want to be competitive. Ain't no progress in Pete's house.
To those who want to get rid of Columbia football for good here is a brief list of past CU football players and their professional accomplishments.
Gene Rossides - Lawyer and U.S. Undersecretary of the Treasury.
Jack Kerouac - Beat generation novelist and poet.
Bob Kraft - Owner of the New England Patriots and philanthropist.
Brian Dennehy - Stage and screen actor.
Russ Warren - Orthopedic surgeon and N.Y. Giants team physician.
Bill Campbell - Silicon Valley business exec. and philanthropist.
Archie Roberts - Heart surgeon and founder of Living Hearts Foundation.
All collegiate athletic programs foster sportsmanship, teamwork and moral growth if run correctly. Please bring back the likes of Lou Little and Buff Donelli who did it the right way. During their years, players didn't sit in the stands and watch the game, players were played on their athletic ability and not what year they were in, and I am quite sure the alumni were invited to voice their opinions whether for or against the program.
Ain't no progress in Pete's house.
All of the above ... Great Comments. Good for you Jake , people are starting to take notice.
Thank you Jake! Can we nominate ypou for the HOF?
Maybe we should consider an AD from the private sector? rutgers did it Panetti and I believe Michigan did as well.
I don't think Jake's getting in the Columbia HOF any time soon....Diane Murphy heads that committee!!!
I don't deserve to be in any HOF. Just give me a good seat at the game where CU wins an Ivy football title.
I am absolutely certain when Pete is dismissed he will spout the same trope he is sticking with now. He doesn't have the players, blame it on the "conditions"
Face the music Pete, you are just an average TE coach on your very best day. no offense to TEs or TE coaches.
I only care that Dianne's hiring practice for PM was dubious because it would appear that it has failed. If the program were showing promise right now we would all be applauding the guts she showed by taking a risk.
She should face scrutiny only because it was a bad choice and because it sent the program back even further than it was....
if ifs and buts were candies and nuts, we would all have a merry Christmas.
I have been reluctant to speak out because I believe that, on balance, M. Diane Murphy has done much for the physical facilities and the game-day environment. A simple comparison of her work with that of her predecessors shows just how fortunate we have been to have someone who has done so much to fix things up. Indeed, we had one athletic director who gave away playing fields in exchange for a community hospital. And, truth is, the game-day environment on her watch now is far nicer than it ever has been.
Her silence when it comes to PM is deafening. I do not think it's fair to blame her for his having been hired. Though he was not the first choice of many, on paper he was more than qualified. And we should not fault MDM for having made a looks-good-on-paper hire when others might have made a different choice.
Of course, my take on the decision to hire PM would be different if we knew that he had told MDM that he would be eliminating the JV team, scheduling practices at 6 o'clock in the morning, and having upperclassman banished to the stands on game day. Any sensible person who heard that scheme ought to have said, "It was nice speaking with you. But you do not appear to be the person for the job."
We, of course, don't know whether PM was quite so forthcoming before he was hired. And for that reason, I am reluctant to say that MDM, who has done so many good things, is at fault for having made what now appears to be a truly disastrous hire. On any honest appraisal, the football program is now a train wreck. But that was not so clear two years ago.
I am, of course, disappointed that MDM has not spoken out about the football team publicly. She is, after all, the person in charge. Perhaps she is working behind-the-scenes and has a good reason for not saying anything now. For now, I give her the benefit of the doubt.
But once the season ends, it should be evident to all what needs to be done. If MDM does not release PM from further obligations under his contract, she will warrant all the criticism that she will receive. But for now, let us support her and trust that she will do the right thing at season's end.
Charles Dewey Cole, Jr., '74C
This comment will fall on deaf (or, more realistically, plugged) ears but can someone explain why Mangurian hasn't been afforded at least as much time for judgment as Bob Surace, who had similarly embarassing losses in his first two seasons at Princeton (34-9 to Bucknell, 34-0 to Brown, 37-9 to Penn, 42-14 to Columbia)?
Further, I think it's pretty clear that this commentariat has little interest in seeing CU win any of these last three games. I'd hardly be surprised if several of you were hoping for huge blowouts to help advance your agenda and sell more buttons.
Save the "we just want what's best for the kids" talk for someone who believes it. You may argue that you have the best interest of the program in mind but it's pretty obvious you want as much bloodshed as possible in the meantime.
Re the community hospital, that fiasco was the work of Sovern and Cole. The AD didn't have any say in the matter. It was the single worst decision in the history of Columbia athletics since 1963, when the trustees decided to delay building the gym in Morningside Heights for a few years in order to do some more fund raising. "There is a tide ....."
to Inwood Tiger:
What was the alumni reaction to the first two (1-9) seasons with the then New coach of the Tigers? Does it compare to the reaction on this blog?
Why did PM banish the upperclassmen to the stands? I understand he only wanted to play "his" guys, but taking them out from the sidelines is just bad. Did he even have a rationale?
I do not speak from first hand knowledge but Surace seems a much different character than Pete. Pete is all about arrogance and command. Military is the exception but guys who do that have control issues. They believe they have to carry a big stick for people to respect them. That does not go over well with most college students (unless you joined such a program intentionally).
I also do not speak from first hand knowledge but voices on this board say Pete banished upperclassmen he felt did not measure up talent-wise or who did not fit his paradigm for success on the field or carry the right attitude within his kingdom.
and to Mr. Cole's question, Murphy is complicit because she had 17 candidates initially considered and somehow Pete emerged as the front runner. What I gather from voices on this board, the decision was based on her familiarity/friendship with Pete when they were both at Cornell and also alleged recommendations from Mr. Kraft (perhaps by way of Bill Belichick), blessed by Bill Campbell or perhaps nudged in that direction by Godfather Bill.
Surace is a princeton grad so there was some wiggle room and his personality is more in his favor. Alumni had him on watch, but they also knew princeton would not be kept down for long regardless.
I think Charles Cole Jr. hits the nail on the head -- the PM hire looked to be a good one two years ago. MDM apparently thought PM was a sure thing with his successful Cornell stint and NFL patina, a guaranteed winning combo. Except it wasn't. It was a mistake.
As Mr. Cole writes, and I concur, MDM has done wonders for the game day experience at Baker. We can quibble with her other coaching choices, but it looks as if both basketball teams are finally on the rise.
I, for one, will withhold judgment until this season's done and MDM has a chance to do the right thing. I hate the arrogance and all the arm-in-arm photos with our few winning teams, but I won't expect her to be superhuman and not make mistakes.
PM's on- and off-the-field mistakes add up to a pattern that requires action. MDM's look more like bad luck.
I cannot talk about this clown anymore. He has shown no people skills, no relationship with the players, little respect of/for/to the alums, no coaching ability outside bad coaching, he is unapproachable, but more to the point shows about as much coaching prowess as the coach of the 10 year olds I watched last weekend...no that is an injustice to the 10 year olds coach.
Just get rid of the guy already. 2 salaries on the payroll is not a big issue at columbia as it has been done before.
I feel bad for the kids and parents, but I am not apologizing anymore to them. Either stand up and be counted or suffer the reality that this is a bad guy with worse coaching talent.
To Uppers Only, I don't care if the coach is Frosty the Snowman if he can get the job done, his team doesn't loose all respect for him and we have anOL and a DL that are not skinny squirts( not because they want to be). And yes,I do "just want what's best for the kids".
Again, for the umpteenth time..mangurian was not that great at Cornell and many of his players loathed him. He did well with the prior coaches recruits, but not his own. He also lacked success in the pro game. If anybody but the AD did any background on the guy they would have heard this from numerous sources, but there lies the other culprit, the firm used to do the recruiting..oh wait, isn't that mr. Gregory's firm!? Ooooppppssss.
The hire was a mistake before the docs were signed. Why did some of his coaches leave before anything really started? Why didn't he have a full cadre of coaches to bring with him? Perhaps because nobody who knew him well wanted to work with him except for dianne who doesn't work well with others also.
As others have stated, Surace began his tenure with two disastrous seasons, but he had the benefit of three important factors:
(1) He's an alum, with his own Ivy championship ring to boot.
(2) Even as the losses piled up, he never blamed others. He stayed positive and only said good things about his players.
(3) He's a genuinely nice guy. People like him. When going gets tough, that can buy somebody extra time.
Surace didn't win much during his first two years. But unlike PM, his losses were occasionally close. Nor did he get shut out every game.
Also in year 2, Surace and Perry developed a real star player in Chuck Dibillio who went on to be Ivy ROY after a 1,000 yard rushing season. His stroke after the season was terrible luck, but his good year made the 1-9 season a bit easier to take. Meanwhile, our potential 1,000 yard rusher was suspended and publicly humiliated by Mangurian. Night and day = Mangurian and Surace.
why was he suspended?
Everyone should know by now that I will never divulge that.
Jake,
As someone who knows the reason Garrett was suspended, I struggle to see how you can allege that was Mangurian's fault.
Mangurian could have given them "Bobby Bowden justice" and made them run a couple of extra laps after practice. :)
^ie. exactly what Wilson used to do in similar situations.
You couldn't stand Wilson because he was jovial and too much of a player's coach. Now you hate Mangurian because he isn't "nice" (as if that means anything) and doesn't pander to Jake. The reasons for Mangurian not getting a similar leash to Surace are comical at best. A coach's alma mater, the fact that he's "unapproachable", his portrayal in the media, his star player having a stroke, etc. Seriously!?
I DON'T say it was Mangurian's fault, but publicly announcing his suspension and they way it was handled was bad news.
I would have LOVED to read the comments on here if Garrett had been benched without explanation. Not sure how "a violation of team rules" becomes humiliation but you can't have it both ways. If he gives a reason Garrett and Delaney are out, he's humiliating his players; if he doesn't, he hates the media/alumni and is off the rails even more. I'm particularly curious, how would you have handled the situation?
Further, at what point does blame fall on the players themselves? Clearly, if they are violating team/school rules, their interests aren't inline with those of the team and, in my humble opinion, should be punished. Coaches are supposed to teach "life lessons" (LOL), haven't you guys ever seen a cliched football movie?
The comments calling for Murphy and Mangurian to be fired are not simply based on aesthetics, as some have suggested. Nor are they based upon a winless record during the first phase of a rebuilding campaign. They are based upon the way in which we have been losing. Pete said that the biggest jump is from year one to year two. In that respect he is correct. But here the jump is backwards. It is the way I which we have lost which defies any rational explanation that this train wreck should be permitted to continue another year.
Rich Forzani '66C
To: Charles Dewey Cole, Jr., '74C
Charles, your comments above are well written and logical, and I particularly appreciate you signing your name to them as too few of us do. I'm glad that you've pointed out an area where MDM has produced positive results, because I personally don't believe in pure "black and white". Thanks for an intelligent and informative note.
My only contention is, regardless of game day experience or fund raising, that her primary responsibility as AD has been shirked. Her record of objective/measurable accomplishment is abysmal, as seen by the Ivy titles achieved during her tenure. While I won't post that info again, unless requested by popular demand, her record has actually has actually gotten gotten far worse in the past 5 years than it was in the first four. So we are going backwards. If we look at personal or emotional or opinion-based issues, we become distracted. We can only look at hard facts and results and records to see the actual truth.
I believe that Murphy is, to borrow a phrase, re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic rather than fixing the hole in the hull. I have nothing against her at all, and I'm sure she is an honorable and sincere person. She just isn't and hasn't been doing what she was hired to do.
She has failed.
I am continually amazed at the parents who compare Mangurian to Surace. We are fielding the worst team in the history of CU football and the Ivy League, with epic blowouts every week, a completely inept offense and no ability to play on the road. His first two recruiting classes are not promising, sorry to say. Yes, we are young but the past three weeks the third strings at Dartmouth, Yale and Harvard toyed with our first string. And if one looks ahead, remove Olligner, Garrett, Garner and Delaney from the mix, and how does 2014 look?
PM made strategic decisions to play with a light OL, to forbid Brackett from running, to put upper classmen in the stands and to play freshmen WRs who cannot catch the football. I know Louis DiNovo and Jake Wannamaker could catch the football but they have disappeared.
The program is in disarray. Pete's accountable, as is the AD.
And I never attacked Norries for being "jovial." (And by the way, he wasn't jovial to everyone and was downright nasty too --- ask the Spec reporter he attacked at Penn in 2006) And Rich is right, this is NOT about personality it's about terrible results.
Whatever Garrett's offense is forgivable and forgettable. Lighten up coach with a stick up the yayhoo. The program needs a coach. who can create a positive atmosphere.
Whenever I say the only useful measure is W-L, I get a load of crap from the PC crowd, so thanks to Jake, Rich, Old Lion and Roar Lion for agreeing with me. Cut the PC crap! It goes without saying that we all want a coach who is a good human being, cares for his players, etc. But after that what measure do we have after SIXTY YEARS OF LOSING? We have W-L. Let's get a serious AD and a coach who can WIN. And that goes also for men and women's basketball and soccer. We have been going downhill or treading water for years in those sports too, with no more Ivy titles than football has.
Rich Forzani '66C
If you're a coach or an AD, at the end of the day, it's all about the "W"s.
Character development, honesty, mentoring, fundraising are all prerequisites for the job, not reasons to keep it. We EXPECT these qualities just to qualify for the interview.
At the end of the day, it's all about the "W"s
Since Jake may be too busy to type up the Cornell Scouting Report, allow me:
Jeff Matthews can really throw the ball. Stop him, and Columbia can win.
That's about the essence of it.
:)
I'll have a Cornell scouting report tonight. :)
Stopping Matthews no easy task for sure. Cornell averages 312 yds per game though the air. He will surely lack no motivation after the pounding he took in last years "Empire Bowl"
HAMILTON GARNER second string to to a FR. WTF PM don't give a you know what for the Upper Class man. He didn't put it out that some of HIS fr. was busted for under age drinking why was that.Is that against his team rules ?
Would Anonymous writing directly above try again, in English this time?
Figure it out you ASS. That,s English
True that frosh got caught with same infraction as seniors but no suspensions! What's up with that?
Mangurian is history. But like Obama who blames everyone else Mangurian will say he "couldn't get good recruits". He's an abomination along with control freak Bill Campbell whose involvement with the decisions on football have been disastrous and the AD who smiles as Rome is burning.
No ......you just attacked Norris period jake. All of you bitch on here, whine, groan, bellyache, moan, vomit forth your quibbles, and make statements relating to football. None of you have worked a coaches week in a film room and found out what a game plan is or why it is. Keep your administration comments I agree with them. I agree with how coaches handle players, Norris was a players coach. Stay out of the football end, you are far underqualified.
Former Columbia coach, 21 years experience, 2 rings. Nuff said!
Mangurian is history. But like Obama who blames everyone else Mangurian will say he "couldn't get good recruits". He's an abomination along with control freak Bill Campbell whose involvement with the decisions on football have been disastrous and the AD who smiles as Rome is burning.
I would agree, few of us here have worked as football coaches but it does not take much to see poor game planning unfold and poor utilization of talent. It is easy to second guess play calling this guy had all of the offseason to get it together and understand what you can and should not do as far as preparing your team and system design. Then he face plants in every possible way, that's a major statement that the coach is misplaced.
Not only that but an unbearable personality to boot. It's hard to believe a guy like this gets a great opportunity like CU.
I have met both him and Wilson, and neither where impressive. Hopefully we can find someone that is the answer. Successful, passionate and genuine. I think Yale has got a pretty good guy. Look at the turn around there!
Game planning takes countless hours. Tendencies tell you one thing but you don't factor in 2 big things. Opponents self scout and see what their own tendencies are so they change them also you can't predict execution by your kids. Saban said it the best college coaching is defined as getting an 18-24 yr old to do something under pressure when the bullets are flying. And all college coaches job rest on that ability. Most are shematically sound but you guys couldn't comprehend that. So don't fault a bad call or a bad game plan because really none of you have a clue. Probably couldn't defend or know what a gap scheme run is. How about instead of selling buttons why not sell copy of "college football for dummies" you all need to read it.
Last poster is a tool.
If the football geniuses are the ones responsible for these 45 point losses, then I'm proud to be a dummy.
Mr. Rings, now you sound like the uppity "wish I was Nick Saban" crowd at smartfootball.com. Wowwwwww, gap scheme. Gee, we are impressed. How about taking a very basic approach and creating a locker room, meeting room, weight room TEAM vibe. You know where players want to play for each other, enjoy the process of balancing school and athletics, are stoked about practices and game day because they know the coaching staff has a clue and will utilize their talents. How about treating people with respect as a start. Then we can debate gap schemes.
As a former hs coach with a winning record I assure you that mastery of the X's and O's football jargon -- i.e. "gap scheme" -- has little influence on success. In two weeks or less any CU graduate could learn all that's needed about this.
I could write for a long time about what it takes to be a successful coach but I will mention two key factors. First (there's no getting around it) is recruiting. You've got to know good players when you see them and you've got to get them onto your team. (If you're been getting blown out every week, that won't help.) To the surprise of some, recruiting usually has more to do with selling the parents than selling the kid. Paul Bryant was much better with the mamas than he was with the X's and O's and the results speak for themselves.
Second, you must eliminate all bullshit. One form of bullshit is making football (or coaching football) seem overly complex. But some players and coaches like that bullshit because it makes their task seem more difficult to outsiders. Try this instead: "If you can't do anything else, knock somebody down." My coach said that in 9th grade and it opened my eyes to the essence of football.
I met John McKay, Dan Devine, George Allen (and his wife,) Sam Wyche, Bo Schembechler, and outstanding HS coaches in Chicago like Bob Spoo and Pat Cronin. They were all different but much could be learned from each of them about how to coach football. And I'm very, very sorry to say that I learned much from Columbia coaches about how NOT to coach football. Some things never change.
Mitch hit the nail on the head, recruiting is key and for as long as i can remember the coaches at CU have had an immense inability to source and analyze talent. also, most never seem to get how to use the talent successfully or efficiently if they do get the talent in the door.
to mr. rings, i honestly dont know what you having two rings proves? the only ring i wear is my wedding ring and that is symbolic of an agreement i have with a special person. I have football rings, but all they remind me of is what i have done in the past. however, i judge myself on what i have done lately, always trying to get better.
i hope you have a nice sense about yourself when you wear those rings, puff the chest up a little, keep the head up high, its all good.
You know Anonymous several posts above states that we are not coaches and don't know what we are talking about.well I am a parent , never been a coach or an assistant coach, but it's not hard to look around at college FB teams, All teams and notice a difference in the OL and DLines. They are huge! I have not seen any guys at these positions as small as our linemen.Please correct me if I'm wrong. What bothers me the most about this weight thing is that we have way way way too many injuries. Thiese guys are getting trampled on. Set me straight if I am wrong , but we have dropped like flies this season and I think it's criminal that a coach stands by and let's this happen. It did not work last year when these kids had to drop weight and it certain ally has proven to not have worked this year.
You know Anonymous several posts above states that we are not coaches and don't know what we are talking about.well I am a parent , never been a coach or an assistant coach, but it's not hard to look around at college FB teams, All teams and notice a difference in the OL and DLines. They are huge! I have not seen any guys at these positions as small as our linemen.Please correct me if I'm wrong. What bothers me the most about this weight thing is that we have way way way too many injuries. Thiese guys are getting trampled on. Set me straight if I am wrong , but we have dropped like flies this season and I think it's criminal that a coach stands by and let's this happen. It did not work last year when these kids had to drop weight and it certain ally has proven to not have worked this year.
Actually i have a great sense of myself. Probably won a lot more games than the "experts" on here and I got all your panties ruffled in less than 24 hours. Actually from my point of view thats not so bad. You should all be labeled communist traitors of your university because you allow outsiders access to your blog. You embarrass the kids you say you are protecting by undermining any faith they may have in any member of the coaching staff. My whole point is let the coaches coach. Unless your prepared to coach? That may be fun to see all you guys try that for awhile. I don't think the scoreboard has enough slots for how bad jake and rich and the rest of you would be beat. Hahahah...
mr rings, no one's feathers are ruffled here. It would take more than a troll with nowhere else. to boast to accomplish that. If you like Pete do much as a peer, why don't you sync up with him personally and join his constipated following.
Not a Pete fan. Not a fan of supposed coach bashing alumns that embarrass their players by making the blog public.
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