The big news today is that Penn Head Coach Al Bagnoli has announced he will retire at the end of this season.
Bagnoli took over a struggling Penn team, (the Quakers had
dominated much of the 1980’s, but stumbled during the Gary Steele era of
1989-91), and made it the most consistent championship contender of his time.
… and he could have been ours.
Al Bagnoli was offered the head coaching job at Columbia in
1984, but he rejected the offer, noting that the administration at CU was clearly
not all that committed to winning.
This story from Sports Illustrated from 1995 makes it even more clear that Bagnoli backed away from Columbia because he saw a weak administration.
This story from Sports Illustrated from 1995 makes it even more clear that Bagnoli backed away from Columbia because he saw a weak administration.
He was right, of course.
But there’s a chance this story could turn in our favor now
that Penn has made the unusual move to already announce Bagnoli’s replacement.
That honor is going to current Penn defensive coordinator Ray Priore.
I can’t ever remember a time when a replacement for a
retiring Ivy football coach was made so far in advance. And I have to think
this is disappointing for all of the other people who wanted this job.
At the top of that list is Penn linebacker legend Tom
Gilmore, currently the head coach at Holy Cross.
Gilmore’s general record at Holy Cross has been stellar
despite some real financial challenges facing his program. And his stature
remains high with all the former CU players who worked with him when he was an
assistant coach for the Lions in the late 1980’s.
It’s no secret that Gilmore has been my top choice to be the
Columbia head coach for many years now.
When Pete Mangurian is officially dismissed in 214 days, Gilmore
should be more than ready to step in here. And I hope he’ll come here with an
extra chip on his shoulder as he looks to prove Penn made a mistake in
overlooking him.
Our day is coming...
51 comments:
Jake, I fear that your endorsement of Gilmore is the proverbial kiss of death so long as MDM remains our AD, and with our very recent successes I think the smart money may be on her survival. My understanding is that Gilmore was in the running some years ago but was concerned at the time that he would not get needed administration support.
Oldlion, I had heard that Gilmore was a finalist but never offered, both this last time and the prior time.
Jake, I am pretty sure Gimore was a D lineman at Penn
Jake, I am not sure that the article says Bagnoli turned CU down, it looks like he removed himself from a final pool of candidates before the offer went out.
Assuming he was competing against Coach Garrett (which meant that Jason and Judd would come here to join John, too), perhaps he removed himself rather than getting turned down.
Bagnoli wasn't the classiest guy in terms of remarks he's made about Columbia in the past. (Remember his famous contretemps with Norries erly in Norries' tenure?) And his staff has often been accused of, purportedly with his at least tacit approval, running down CU to recruits.
Winning coach. Possible creep as a person. Common enough in football. Still not entirely admirable, however.
But I really do wish you'd stop gloating-in-advance over what you see as inevitable, Mangurian's firing. It's to the point where it reminds me of Pat Buchanan's seemingly similar glee over the decline of America. (Save that I rate you as sane as opposed to him.) If it happens, fine, then you can say you told all of us so. But it won't hurt for you to wait until it does happen. Especially given how often you've said this stuff before.
An early retirement, he has plenty of good coaching years left in him. Shows how the grind can have that effect on you. He probably just needs a break but I bet he will be back, maybe in an AD role.
More on how Bagnoli saw a lack of commitment from the admin:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1007041/2/index.htm
My "glee" is at the growing possibility that we will be free of what I think is a terrible mistake. Sorry, but I refuse to be quiet about this until it gets fixed. Unlike Buchanan, I am rooting for us to succeed ASAP, not for us to decline. We will fix this when Mangurian leaves and that's that.
Thanks Jake, interesting comment by Bags from that interview:
"You have to be very careful about your next job," Bagnoli says. "I've always maintained that there aren't many truly good jobs. If the president and trustees aren't in your corner or at least neutral, you're in trouble. If the dean of admissions and the financial aid people aren't in your corner, you're in trouble. There are a lot of people who have to line up behind you before you can control your own destiny. And the people here believe it's important to do well in any endeavor that we undertake."
Very telling...
Sure is...
So Jake, you're basically saying you will continue beating the negative war drum from now until Mango is gone? Just want to know if that is truly your intent.
As a parent of a current player, this is my one hope for information about the team. If this is all you can contribute to a team and school you supposedly care about, I won't bother checking in on your site again. Just please let me know, but I truly believe you could do much better than what you have reduced yourself to here.
Well, I'm sure there were people on the Titanic who wanted to know the menu for the midnight buffet, but there was kinda something else going on at the moment. I'll still cover news when there's news, but the daily lead story is we have a totally unfit captain at the helm and that trumps everything.
^ I love the analogy! Though in all fairness, we are talking about college athletics not something as dramatic as human lives.
I am taking a less aggressive stance with Pete because I think he wants answers as bad as all of us do. That is why this season is make or break. The prez and AD can't possibly give another wait and see pass if they go winless again and look as horrible as they did last year.
It IS long past time for a restructure of approach in CU football. Whether that is really possible is another matter. Hence the griping.
Jake, this is a serious question, although I recognize that by asking it you may write me off as an Administration Troll: despite last season's disaster, in fact we have had relatively little attrition. In addition, we have attracted brothers of two players or former players at least one of whom was widely recruited in the league, and we have what appears at least on paper to be a solid recruiting class. So if this is the HMS Bounty, how can you explain all of this? One PS on Bagnoli: he trashed Columbia for years, he berated and intimidated refs, he unhooked recruits, and he will not be missed at least by this long suffering Lion. So I would hold off on the Jeter-type farewell tour.
I hadn't heard about any of that laundry oldlion but I would be curious to know more. Smack talk to refs and dealing with recruits who are not the right fit is something every coach is guilty of.
What has he said to denigrate CU football that has not been pointed out by many others?
What I do know is Bagnoli is a Central Connecticut State grad and got his start at SUNY Albany. So he is a State college boy having his way with the Ivy league (with a few exceptions) for many years. That speaks volumes.
Oh I get the unhook remark. "Helping" recruits change their mind so they go to his program. Hey, that is good poaching. There's an app for that:
poachbox.com
Old Lion: Quitting the team is not the only way to quit on a coach. Most of the players don't respect Mangurian but they're sticking it out for their teammates but for him.
No, I'm sorry. The constant negativity just feeds the BS losing attitude that we need to change. We all get this is a make or break year, but how about finding something positive to write about once in while?
Do you really think there is a love affair going on between the staff and the players? They all know far more than any of us (you included by the way), so public negativity breeds that same loser attitude that needs to be broken (no by trying to come up with new a clever ways to bring more negativity).
How about actually writing something constructive about the team, the positions and where we need to get better. Not just saying everyone sucks, but something specific from a football perspective (if there is enough depth here to actually go there).
The bitchy prima dona thing is really not that special.
Agree with Steve T. about Jake, the vital question being, "if there is enough depth here." Conservatives and Repubs have never been noted for depth, and Jake can't see beyond his nose, wrapped up as he is in his antipathy toward Pete. If he had some real insight about the situation he would understand the lack of wisdom in his counterproductive approach. Sorry, Jake, just telling it as I see it.
How in the world can anyone say that this year's recruting class looks any better or worse than any other year? silly statement.
To the parent, I feel your pain and understand that this is frustrating to you. I don't know how to best explain it but every one of us who has been associated with CU has felt the same way at one point but after watching the same script play out year after year I have finally woken up and accepted tha the admin doesn't care. And anyone with a logical brain can see that Mangurian has done a simply terrible job and has a terrible communication style to boot.
We will always root for the team and for our kids but I am on Jake's side at this point. Pete still hasn't taken his head out of the sand and addressed his supporters.
The parents are always unhappy about criticism and always want their boys to be applauded. Understandable. The kids work hard with little positive feedback. Unfortunately, those of us who attended the games last year saw the most embarrassing football team in the history of our program. Which is saying something. We weren't simply bad, we were vastly below the competitive standard of our league. Pete is an unfit skipper. We had poor leadership, astonishingly inappropriate game plans, extraordinarily poor execution on the field and no accountability during or after the season. Those of us who contribute money to athletics believe, as Bags says, the school should seek to succeed in everything it does. Either fix football or drop it, but do not subject 100 students and your alumni to being a national laughingstock because the administration doesn't care for the activity.
That won't mollify the parents, who haven't been watching this for 30, 40 or 50 years. But Jake is on the right track. Fix it or drop it. No middle ground. No excuses.
Meanwhile Dianne was hamming it up in a photo op with Bollinger and the men's basketball team at the banquets this week. She is milking it for all it's worth.
Rest assured I will continue to discuss actual on-the-field stuff about the team, but you should realize there will be no solace in that for those who want happy talk.
My point is this: when I discuss, (as I have exhaustively), things like our horrific O-line, terrible execution, bad game plans and use of player personnel, it DEMANDS a mention of the fact that our coaching staff is responsible for this.
This isn't rocket science. Last year we saw the worst fundamental football of our lives.
As long as we're not still discussing last season right up until opening kickoff of the Fordham game....
To Steve
Your plaint as a parent is understandable to everyone here, and you have our support. But also please listen to what is being said. This is not new to 2013 or 2014. We have been reading this same script with new editions every couple of years, since 1962, but no change to the story line. Forget the coach; barring a miracle, he is toast. The concerns go farther up the line and affect all CU athletics.
In the meantime, although I too think that sometimes Jake goes a bit far, it is his prerogative and his blog. I do believe that if the FB staff was more forthcoming with info, we would see more of it here. As it is, Jake has to squeeze basic stuff out of sources; stuff that should be available on a daily basis to everyone.
Regardless of what else Jake may write, the following "My point is this: when I discuss, (as I have exhaustively), things like our horrific O-line, terrible execution, bad game plans and use of player personnel, it DEMANDS a mention of the fact that our coaching staff is responsible for this." is absolutely dead on. We didn't just go 0-10, we were a sucky 0-10. People showed up, but they didn't play, or coach.
I think everyone here wants to be incredibly surprised next season. We are trying/hoping to find indications that this might happen. But the negatives you read here are grounded in fact or experience.
If there was more detail from Spring camp then it would make sense to talk positions and strategy. Everything is conjecture at this point.
Despite seeing the team demoralized dozens of different ways since 1978 I am optimistic some of the talent injected in this year's class will be a difference maker. I just don't think they have enough to win at all this year unless an opponent has a catastrophic breakdown.
Maybe I missed it, but there were open practices this spring and there was not one report on how the team looked during those practices. Jake lives in the area, so why not one damn thing?
Let me also say that those who are thinking an incoming freshman class is going to fix anything this year are really showing how much you don't know about college football. One of, if not the biggest issues we have is line of scrimmage and if you think an incoming freshman will make any real difference is complete nonsense.
Jake can continue writing whatever the hell you want on this blog, but do you really think the administration gives 2 cents about what you write here? It only matters to those who frequest this site and quite honestly, for those who actually respond, I see nothing more than additional negativeity about the team. If you don't think that your negative attitudes don't carry over to others and eventually the team, then bad on you.
I will also leave you with this: As a parent of a current player, I do hear a lot more about inside information with the team than most, and I will also tell you that MOST of what is stirred up here in speculation IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT. There were many injuries and a few suspensions that were thrown at the coaches feet as terrible coaching decisions (and while I don't consider myself a big supporter of the coaches, they DID MAKE THE RIGHT MOVES IN THESE CASES). You have no way to know what the real truth is and I understand that, but if I had a nickel for every piece of wild speculation that is stirred here, I could buy out Mango's contract today.
If you have hopes of ever being a winner, then start acting like a winner in everything you do. That does for our team, coaches, admin, and yes, those who call themselves fans. I do not accept this teams record as success and I can't imagine anyone associated with the program does either. I just can't be part of the problem if all we're going to do here is bitch.
Other parents of players say the complete opposite; that the players have no respect for Pete and are much less engaged than the upperclassmen were under Norries, etc.
Steve T you bring nothing except a typical parent rant. Of course you have allll the inside info because of your chats with fellow chatters. Nobody except you understands college football because you have a kid who is involved.
Don the sweater and clap your hands in ignorance. YOU are the one with no knowledge, sway or impact on anything relevant. Your like has come and gone. Go ahead and make an early exit and eat your humble pie since that is where you are headed.
alswingman, sorry, can't agree with you about Steve T. He's concerned about his son and the team and is hoping for better. We should do the same.
Supporting the coach because you have family in the program holds no weight.
A new season, a new opportunity but as the drum beats keep implying - show us the aptitude to meet the challenge. Show us innovation and improvement. Not baby steps. Put the freshmen to use and pull out the stops or as others have said, time to get out of Dodge.
Al,
Congrads you win the "most cliches" in one post award. You are slipping back to your old viperous tongue ways.
Start getting the humble pie ingredients ready, as the new 3/4 D will change the entire game to where we will be competitive a lot more.
Nottingham needs a "cow bell" on the side line at practice to improve his internal clock.
One new kid DB listed will be a great RB very soon.
Pat
Right, anything you say. Your sideline enthusiasm as a coach doesn't translate to on the field success.
In fantasy, we can make talent do what we want but matching up to the reality of the competition is another story.
The DB to RB is a fine idea. Surprised Pete would allow you to do that.
Al,
Which coach am I?
Pat stands for point after touchdown.
Pat
Pat, are we talking Cameron Roane here?
Coach, doesn't take much to flush you out.
Yes! Big time runner.
O needs him badly.
Pat
Al,
You're a real bird dog.
Coach Pat
Jake,
I hope you're not going to let Alawicius and his ilk continue to vilify loyal, well-informed Columbians and Americans with his insults like his typical, ridiculous lie above: "Conservatives and Repubs have never been known for depth, and Jake can't see beyond his nose."
I made the mistake once of using a mild, truthful simile here to liken the incompetence of our Admin re football to the incompetence of the Admin in the White House. All hell broke loose from the Marxists who can't abide
any conversation based on reality instead of their delusions. Still, I felt at fault for using any political frame of reference about something we should be able to discuss on this board strictly in sports terms--Columbia football and other sports. And I've acted accordingly.
My position is that while civil alum/fan chatter--and criticism--is fine, the only true judgment will be what actually happens on the field during the games, and the responsible parties will have to own up to it--good or bad.
The reality is that most football seasons during the past 60 years have been failures, many abysmally so.
Reasonable fans nevertheless continue to support their team and to hope before each season that there will be improvement, even success at some point.
At this point, we have every right to expect accelerated
efforts and results if this does not occur. Ridiculous political slurs by Alawicius and others don't belong here, and also have no value for Lion football. Jake, such comments by anyone should be removed immediately.
Columbia's loyal fans are not going away. We will always support the team, but we'll also demand proper stewardship and accountability.
While I find the state of columbia football a very serious issue I don't care if we throw political barbs back and forth as long as we all can take it as well as we give it, but liberals have a very hard time playing by those rules...
Oh yeah, WOF? Throw me your best shot, c'mon, let's see what you got!
:)
touche' alawicius!
WOF, I can and do trade political barbs for the sake of my country's health and survival, but I disagree that doing it here is fun or, more important, that it will help CU football.
There are definitely parallels that can be drawn between people who don't give a damn about their country and people who don't give a damn about their school's football team. Basically, they are losers and narcissists who care only about what rattles around in their skull cage.
But parallel lines don't cross. Or more specifically, curing bad politics won't cure bad Lion football. It's apples and oranges. CU football has been bad during
good and bad times in the nation. Football is fun and games, school pride, etc. Dragging in partisan politics
only distracts from the football mess and allows it to continue. Let's stick to football and get it done.
I dont think it will help CU football, either, I just think the more you let the lefys know it bothers you the more they'll keep it up.
WOF, I hear what you're saying. And it doesn't bother me at all to respond to politic gibes, ignore them or whatever I feel like. My concern is that this is the only forum --that I know of anyway--that is trying to prod the Admin into getting pro-active about football. If we let it become just another political name-calling blog, then Alawicius and his twin brother Aloysius and other trolls will submerge this blog with their BS. Then its value for demanding action in reforming football will go down the drain.
Right on Chick!
Limited suppositions, a conservative trademark.
Thanks for the laugh, Alawicius. Seriously, it made me laugh in a good way because your phrase making is so
funny. And extra funny because I can't tell if it's clever phraseology or stupidity a la Peter Sellers as an idiot gardener who's talking about plants while the politicians--liberals off course--think he's talking about grand philosophical ideas, so they make him President. Exactly like Obama.
"Limited Suppositions," what a hoot. Funny as hell, whether you know it or not, as compared to the Democrat trademark of unlimited dimwitted delirium causing instant poverty, violence and tyranny.
It takes a special you, Allah-wicius, to be a blind
follower of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi
I resent that, Chickadee, I am not blind. I have a raw carrot with every lunch and dinner, and my vision is as sharp as ever. Something I can unfailingly see is delusion and confusion.
alawicius is Chance the Garnder, love it!
Keep eating the carrots, Alawicius, but I'm dismayed that what you see so clearly ahead is more "delusion and confusion." Do you mean Mango's upcoming season?
Try to see a little further, past this year. Do you see PrezBo Lee's final act in 2016? Will he appoint Obama as his successor and make him head football coach too?That'll save a few bucks and hasten the conversion of Baker Field into a private executive golf course.
Thanks WOF, you were right. Better not to compromise my free speech, which is already on the way out. Alawicius, PrezBo Lee and that great Columbia football fan Obama have no interest in Lion football, just in single-wing politics.
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