Columbia Lions (2-6) vs. Brown Bears (4-4)
November 11, 2023
Kickoff Time: 12:30 (but will actually be later due to the senior recognition ceremony)
Robert K. Kraft Field at Wien Stadium
New York, NY
Game Time Weather Forecast: 53 degrees and partly cloudy
The Line: Columbia is a three point favorite
Leading Story Lines
-Will this be the last time we see interim Head Coach Mark Fabish and the rest of the staff Al Bagnoli assembled at Columbia? Chances are, it will be and a new staff will be in place the next time the Lions take the field at Wien Stadium.
-Brown's high-powered offense stumbled at Yale last week, can Columbia make it two bad outings in a row for a Bear squad that still has a shot at a winning season?
-Will the Columbia offense, which showed some belated signs of life last week against Harvard, show more progress Saturday?
3 Lions to Watch
-The final home game for senior RB Joey Giorgi #25 could be a special one as CU has a tradition of sending off senior ball carriers with a bang.
-DE Justin Townsend #36 has been quiet the last several weeks, but may catch Brown's pass-happy offense napping with a rejuvenated pass rush.
-P William Hughes #11 will likely have a bullseye on him as Columbia's punt blocking has been found lacking again this year. Will he be ready?
3 Bears to Watch
-Senior WR Wes Rockett #84 will be targeted and make at least seven or eight catches, but will he get a big one?
-Senior LB Ethan Royer #9 is a great pass rusher and pass defender.
-Sophomore LT Hayden Bozich #72 is a big reason why the Bears have allowed just nine sacks all season.
67 comments:
Wow! Where did you get this or is it speculation?
Love it Jake! Good luck to the staff wherever they land next year
Still stunned by the news of a purge
Cant see why we're favored today. Browns passing offense is scary. Our offense showed signs of life last week against Harvard's second string. Got a bad feeling about this one.
Agree with DOC. I get that it’s senior day, but I think Brown is just better. Think we get shelled.
I also agree on potent Brown offense and regardless of their performance up at Cornell, they have played the good teams quite competitively, and even won a couple. And just to stir things up on wide receivers, while he has the best passing quarterback in the league, Wes Rocket is the best WR in the league.
Question:
How does a team with 32 Seniors have an 0-5 record in the Ivy League and a 2-6 record overall?
Answer:
Mark Fabish
Thanks dad
Another Fabish biff.
The team played hard. The defense was exceptional.
Feel free to explain the loss.
OMG! Play calling late in the 4th qtr. & in OT was awful!
Last drive in regulation, at or near the 35 needs the ball in the air. Commentator correctly pointed it out. Poor play calling has been going on all year. Second td play with a third and two, should have been a staple ALL YEAR
The third down call during overtime, running up the middle, another winning call.
No turnovers. Quality defensive back play. Excellent defensive line play. Gutsy quarterback play A team without their kicker and their two starting offensive tackles.
Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.
Are people still not convinced it is time to re-set and start over?
Hurry Up defeats Hurry Up and Wait
When was the rule changed in college football to allow a defender to tackle a punt receiver before he catches the ball? I have seen that happen before the Brown defender demolished our guy Carter McFadden. What am I missing?
Defense played well against the top offense in the league, offense needs serious work across the board. Thought I saw the DC on the sideline instead of upstairs.
The Streak is at 5.
The “halo rule” was changed in the NFL and in the NCAA. If a defender is in the immediate vicinity of a receiver on a punt, it is the obligation (as well as the option) of the receiver to call a fair catch. If they do not, which was the case with McFadden they can yes be tackled before the ball arrives. You cannot hit a receiver who has called for a fair catch, nor can you tackle the receiver if the ball is not in their immediate vicinity.
It indeed looked ugly but it was not illegal.
Pretty poor officiating that hurt both teams at different times.
They played hard, D was good all day, special teams much better. But with 90 seconds left, third and 4 at the 33 - Brown stacks the box and we run Terry straight into the pile for no gain. Then on 4th down, Green goes for a low percentage throw to the end zone. Two horrendous play calls, imho. Obviously, not easy to make the first down, but running a small back straight into a D that is set for the play? And the play had not worked all day. Then rather than look for a 1st down and game winning FG, go for broke? Just bad.
Both short options were covered, thats why green went for deep option
Btw do we now understand why coaches went with bell for 5 games. His 2 best throws all season were today. So sad, i bet this is what they were seeng fans n practice and it just didnt come out until today
Offensive line needed to take over today. Last drive and overtime 3rd down run plays they n eded to get some push and just didnt
Wordsmith
I think the play calling on our last drive in regulation time was poor. Very disappointing result in light of strong defensive effort. Last year Libyan ate Brown alive—not so this year. One more first down in the final drive in regulation was all we would have needed for a winning FG. This team was snake bitten—-Only games in which we were outplayed were Harvard and Yale. With a better game plan on offensive we could have beaten Princeton, Penn, Dartmouth and Brown. One other observation—the Brown offense was more imaginative than ours. Holding them to 14 in regulation was excellent. And we did get screwed on calls today, including in OT.
Took Fabby nine games to decide to play both quarterbacks, lol.
Speaking of bad coaches, Jim Engles has his troops down 12 at the half. I think I’ll skip that blunderball, as I don’t much enjoy watching teams shoot 15-60 every game.
Engles biff.
Had the opportunity to stand next to a disgruntled dad after game. Whining to a former player how this is an embarrassment and he cant wait to be done with Columbia football.
I am not one bit embarrassed. I watched my son and every Lion player go hard the entire game. A great defensive scheme against league’s best offense and some new wrinkles on offense. We needed a bit more on both sides of the ball. I am sad, I feel bad for the players
I wanted to confront unhappy daddy, but I did not. I just wonder how much his sonny boy played today. I cant imagine being embarrassed by anything on the field today. Maybe sonny boy didnt play much for 4 years daddy?
I am not the father or relative of a football player. I feel so bad for them. They are talented and play their hearts out.
The coaches do their best which will never be good enough. The coaches were hired by an AD whose best is not good enough and by a snobbish effete university administration that gloats when the team loses and feels that it is something to be proud of.
I have been associated with Columbia for sixty years and have witnessed this year after year after year going all the way back to Buff Donelli.
To those who think next year will be different, I have shares in the Brooklyn Bridge to sell.
The alumni of Harvard, Yale, Notre Dame, USC, UCLA, Standford, et al would never tolerate this.
Why should we?
Then you have no pride!
Daddy if your boy never plays. You would not be embarrassed.
We had 4 winnable IL games and lost all 4 in heartbreaking fashion—3 point losses on the final drive against Princeton and Penn, a winnable road game against Dartmouth in which we muffed a few chances, and an OT loss against Brown. In all 4 our defense was generally stout. Our offense struggled. And when our all Ivy WR went down, followed by our LT, we were playing without two our our best guys. So is the answer to do a clean sweep of the staff? Or can we conclude that this staff should be given another chance? The players play hard for this staff and do not quit. I am not a parent or a former player but have followed this program for 60 years. I think we have a better foundation now than we ever had in the pre-Bagnoli years. If I were the AD I would sit down with Mark and have a very long discussion about what he thinks can be done to turn this program into a winner before pulling the plug.
Overall on the year, the Brown Defense has been the worst in the League. The Columbia Offense has been the worst in the League.
Brown gives up on average 395 yards per game. Columbia gains 260 yards per game.
Call me a “dad of someone who does not play” all you want, though I am not. (I am old enough to be the grandfather of a player.)
You have three runnings backs who are averaging over 4 yards per carry.
How does anyone explain, Third and 2 in overtime, and you fail to convert?
For anyone who is enamored with Mark Fabish and believe he is the answer, you have to be wanting an entirely new Offensive coaching staff. You are going to have new quarterbacks next season, now is the time to reconfigure the Offense.
For someone who is an Offensive coach, Fabish did not have this team perform to their capabilities. Maybe the quarterbacks were overrated, maybe the receivers were hurt and underperformed, but the playcalling was abysmal.
If people believe the players want to play for Fabish, or that he is a stellar recruiter, fine, that is your choice; but something has been done to revamp the offense. Clear out at least half the coaching staff.
The same faces next year, will not deliver a competitive product, against the likes of their Ivy League counterparts.
Play calling in OT was awful to be sure.But we had a chance to stop Brown and limit them to a FG.
Pretty hard to get on the defense for this one. When it counted, Brown got the matchups they wanted; big, tall, receivers on shorter, slight, defensive backs. Think back to their second scoring drive when Brown had fourth and long.
Considering how prolific the Brown passing attack had been all year, the defense exceeded all expectations.
Whereas, the offense …………
Bagnoli's offense we can do without! Fabish too. Donors rise up!
The playcalling has been suspect all season. Shawn Fitzgerald on SNY commented yesterday, after the first end around, that it seems as if, “after eight games, they are opening up the playbook”.
There are very many, very successful teams, even in the NFL, where the head coach calls the offensive plays. Andy Reid; the Bagnoli disciple, Kevin Stefanski; Sean McVay.
Fabish did not have to worry about the defense. They proved repeatedly they were in good hands. Rarely, during the season, were they caught in the wrong coverage.
Fabish, could have, and should have, taken over the playcalling. He designed the offense, he knew the offense. At some point in the season, he should have changed up what was clearly an underperforming offense.
Whether out of an allegiance, or because since he thought “we are so close”, he chose not to.
Considering the last few years of offensive output, it may not have mattered; but his staying the course, has produced the worst offense in the Ivy League, by a considerable margin, whether it be calculated by points per game, yards per game, or any other metric. Averaging 14.1 points per game makes it difficult to win in a league where almost every team has a mobile, competent quarterback; even with a great defense. Averaging 260 yards of offense per game, works out to fewer than three first downs per drive. It is hard to have a decent defense, when they are not spelled by an offense capable at sustaining drives.
I see no reason to give Fabish another chance, unless, we want to see Football become Men’s Basketball 2.0.
Not that anyone asked me but i agree with comment that fab would need to convince me how he plans to dramatically change the offense to score when you do not have a talent advantage. Brown has done this under Perry. Oh and exactly how he plans to retain Stovall
Cleaning house is the knee-jerk reaction of some. I dont think anyone, including coaches would say that no changes needed here. Whether that is scheme, coaches, etc i think we all agree something is needed. Giving fabish a chance does not mean no change is necessary
The throw the bums out crew underestimates how difficult it is to find and retain quality coaching in the IL. I would think Columbia supporters would know this better than anyone. If you find a good young coach, you are inevitably a stepping stone for bigger and better jobs. A veteran “name” coach will tend to not understand that the way they have done things their entire career wont necessarily work in the IL. I dont believe anyone is suggesting a 10 year tenure like Archer at Cornell, but I for one would want to be damn sure Fabish is not the answer before moving on. If he shows me a new offensive plan and he keeps his defensive staff I would give him the opportunity
Thanks for the info on the "halo rule." I have never seen a defender tackle a punt receiver in the open field before he caught a ball. Maybe I have lived a sheltered football life, but I cannot imagine this situation arising very often. Regardless of the technicalities of the halo rule, I believe the ref should have used common sense and called the defender for unnecessary roughness.
I am sure Fabish is not the answer
Ah, the old “it’s hard to find a good coach to hire for an Ivy program so let’s retain an awful one” argument. No thanks. Funny how 6 of the other 7 schools all seem to have good coaches despite this “difficulty.” What would make you dead sure Fabish isn’t our guy? A few more winless Ivy campaigns? Three straight (going on four) last-place finishes, a la Engles? Ridiculous.
What would be Stovall’s impetus to stay be if Fabish becomes the Head Coach? He has already proven he can coach. He has been at Columbia for eight years. If Fabish is promoted, he would be given at least three years to prove himself. If Fabish would fail, Stovall would not be the heir apparent. Staying for him under Fabish would be a dead end.
Fabish should only be allowed to stay if he can convince Stovall to stay and promises to bring in a new Offensive Coordinator.
100%. Why does everybody want to keep the staff when they prove that they have not won! If you had a job and produce the same results, you be fired why are these guys are considered to stay around?
Open letter to Mark Fabish.
Bill Campbell came to Columbia as the Head Coach after a long tenure as a Coordinator. It was his first head coaching job. His announcement as the new coach garnered the most alumni support in the history of Columbia Athletics. Everyone was sure he was the solution to all previous failures.
He went 0-7 in the Ivy League in his first season.
Over six seasons, he won a total of 12 games, only 8 of which were against Ivy League schools.
Realizing he was a failure as a football coach, after he resigned, he gave up coaching. There is no shame in admitting you may be better suited to do other things.
It worked out pretty well for him, not coaching. Sadly, he passed away way too soon; his demise hastened by an incessant habit of chain smoking cigarettes.
He recognized his shortcomings, and Mark, you should too, while your future still awaits you.
Agree…. in addition, this team was 7-3 two years ago and 6-4 last year. They were projected to be good this year. It was not like Fabish was given a bad team that didn’t have talent or success in the last couple of years. Why are we trying to make this team seem like the old Columbia days. Sure there is an injury or two but every team has them. Let’s understand what we don’t have and that is leader ship. Not sure if Bagnoli was the best coach or not but he definitely was a better leader and produced it with game-winning results. Where are we now?
What a waste of words.
I get the frustration with this season and the impulse to get rid of Fabish. I have no dog in this fight except the fact that I am an alum and fan from the 90s-- I didn't play on the team and other than loving Alma Mater, have no agenda with the current staff. Out of curiosity, I just looked up the records of some other coaches and it seems like they were given some time to turn things around. Tim Murphy went 2-5 in '94 and 7-0 by '97, winning a title. Buddy Teavens went 1-6 in '05 and finally won a title in 2015. Tony Reno went 1-6 in '12 and won a title in '17. Surace went 0-7 in '10 and won a title in '13. Hopefully I wills see an Ivy title in my lifetime...
Now dont let facts get in the way of the whiners’ emotions. Columbia fans’ entitlement is showing!
But how many of those teams had won 13 games over the prior two seasons, had a head coach who had already been with the program for several seasons, and had 32 seniors on the roster in the head coach’s first season?
Engles 2.0.
Mango a better record in his first season than Fabish, and we all know how much of a train wreck that turned out to be. No reason to chance it that Fabish will be even worse.
If not being content with going winless in the Ivies is your definition of “entitled,” then yes, I’m definitely in that category.
The facts are each of those coaches inherited programs that were in decline, and void of talent. Not one of those coaches inherited a team that had a winning record the prior year. Those coaches had to install new systems on both sides of the ball.
Not Mark Fabish.
He inherited 32 Seniors, many of whom had talent. He had installed the offense years before. He had continuity in the Defensive Coordinator. He should have produced better results in his first season, rather than be compared to those coaches.
Look at yesterday’s game. The stars were aligning. Great weather, high emotions for Senior Day, great defensive play, an opponent who had lost their kicker who earlier in the season hit a 47 yarder, an opponent who relied heavily on a passing offense and for this game had a backup left tackle and then, later lost their starting right tackle. All these riches in a game they were already favored to win.
They showed huge promise on an opening drive, but then went conservative. They had no sense of urgency until they needed a touchdown to tie the game.
In overtime they won the toss. Again, everything was falling their way.
And yet, their great offensive guru of an Interim Head Coach, had no recipe to score a touchdown from 25 yards out.
I could get behind writing off this year as a “learning experience”, with hopes things would change in a year or two, but I am not seeing any humility in this man. He was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple. When did he once say, “I have to do better as a coach.”? What tangible improvements can he point to over the course of the season? Which player has blossomed over the nine games? Can he point to one game against a serious opponent where the team played up to their capabilities in every aspect, for an entire game?
What leads people to believe he is the right person going forward?
Fully agree—outrageous non-call
Amen!!! Great post that speaks truth to all the Fabulists.
Glad to see the responses over the state of affairs regarding Columbia football in 2023. This has been the most disappointing season in many years, excruciating close losses, injuries to key players, breakdowns in executing plays in key situations. Alumni and parents should and will demand more. "Same Old Columbia" is no longer acceptable! I think Al Bagnoli showed it could be done. We must build on his success or risk losing all the positive momentum we have generated.
I don't know the answer to the problem. I do know that we still don't attract the kind of depth you see at HYP schools- yet. We don't have quality coaches who can
game plan and make adjustments -yet(Al's teams did better after halftime). Changes need to be made and, hopefully the right ones are, because this off-season will the most critical one in our program since Mangurian was let go. Bleeding light blue since the 60's....
I'm pretty sure he's going to be the job.
Zip it, Dr Jellyfinger
Great post, DOC. We won’t be silenced by the Fabulists!
This one of many posts addressed to Fabish or Piling. They don't read this blog. Send an email please.
If you think we can't do it in sports, how come the Columbia Women's Soccer Team just upset Rutgers 2-1 in the opening round of the NCCA National Tournament. Next up Clemson at Historic Riggs Field in Clemson, South Carolina. Today's game was one of the most exciting sports events I ever witnessed. Down by a goal with about 15 minutes remaining on the clock, Columbia scored two goals, the second coming with just 90 second remaining on the clock. Kat Jordan and Shira Cohen scored the two winning goals. Congratulations to the Columbia Womens'Soccer Team.
Coach Griffith is an amazing basketball coach. Her revamped Columbia Women's Basketball Team defeated a very strong Seton Hall squad from the Big East Conference at Levien Gymnasium. She is likely to win more Ivy League Games this season than Engles has won in total in the last five years.
Columbia Men's Swimming Team just defeated Yale
Tennis kicks ass. So does baseball.
If we had won two or three of the four heart breaking losses and beat Cornell next week, we will have once more attained mediocrity (5-5 or 6-4). How sweet that would be!!!
As long as we believe being mediocre is wonderful, we will never again win the League championship.
For sixty years, I have heard next year with a new coach and and better recruited class, we will be victorious. But that has never happened and never will unless the University gets serious about its football program.
If an academic department wallowed in mediocrity, the University would go to the ends of the world to salvage and improve it. The University maintains the highest academic standards. Why won't it do the same for its sports programs?
Arguing about the talent level of various coaches and coordinators, as done for the last six decades, has accomplished nothing. Focusing on a few trees accomplishes nothing. We need to step back and see the whole CU football forest for what it is. It is a very scary sight to behold.
If you truly love CU which is mostly beautiful, you have to recognize its warts in order to make it even more beautiful.
GO LIONS!!!
Did anyone notice that the Brown defensive back is holding on to our wide receiver J.J. Jenkins shirt in the photograph accompanying the Columbia Athletics Website story. Was a holding penaly called on Brown's defensive back?
That hold took place on Jenkins first touchdown catch. One presumes if he did not make the catch, the hold would have been called.
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