Bob Shoop
File this under the "I should have posted this earlier" category, but former Columbia Head Coach Bob Shoop has been named defensive coordinator at Penn State.
For now, this makes Shoop the most successful former CU head football coach of all time.
Every other former Lion coach has basically fallen off the map. Norries Wilson is currently a top assistant at Rutgers, but I'd hardly call his two years with the Scarlet Knights a big success yet.
Looking at the last few head coaches:
Ray Tellier retired from coaching. Larry MacElreavy did well at Richmond for awhile as an offensive coordinator and is coaching middle schoolers in Vermont these days. Jim Garrett never coached again after Columbia, same for Bob Naso and even Bill Campbell, who changed careers.
By some crazy miracle, Frank Navarro got a head coaching job at Princeton after he was ousted at CU. But Princeton never succeeded under him and he is almost universally despised by Tiger football alumni.
The roster above should serve as excellent evidence of the fact that Columbia doesn't kill good coaches, it just doesn't hire the right guys in the first place.
Discuss.
43 comments:
I remember a few years after I had and I was in town, so I stopped in to visit with some of the people in the athletic department that I had a decent relationship with.
I was speaking with one of the Asst ADs about our football issues and it really surprised when that person confided in me that we did not exactly have the luxury of selecting the pick of the litter when it came to hiring a new coach.
Perhaps we did not commit the $$ then the way we apparently do now or perhaps that AD was just voicing an opinion, but seriously, that makes sense. And until we start really showing top tier candidates a commitment to football, what solid coaching candidate with big time aspirations in their right mind wants to come here?
Some may have egos big enough to want to be the ultimate savior here but most good coaches want to feel as if they are being set up for success.
I hate to say it but if I were a Gilmore I would be concerned about taking this job. And Priore chose Stony Brook over us...
WOF:
I admit it takes more thought and commitment on our part, but I still think we could do A LOT better when it comes to hiring a coach.
We KNOW the financial commitment of the alumni is there. Even during the midst of this past season, we threw the biggest bucks at CU football on giving day alone.
What if we really offered $450K to $500K per year to get the best candidates? Would the other Ivy schools look down on us? Would some mean snob at the NY Times write an article criticizing us.
Well, the rest of the other Ivies already look down on us. And the NY Times actually just published an article that said that watching the Super Bowl is an unethical thing to do. 'nuff said.
I could be mistaken but I think Shoop was DC at Yale with Carm Cozza after he finished his playing career there. He's been around, has a great resume. I thought he would do much better at CU. I don't have an explanation why and I'm not sure he does either. 3 and out for him.
Confirmed, he was DC at Yale and Villanova before becoming HC at CU so it's not a new gig to him.
couple thoughts:
1. Some people are better coordinators or position coaches than head coaches
2. He was not ready to make the jump up to head coach
3. He got here and realized very quickly that the admin had absolutely no interest in making sure he succeeded. No support, no interest.
Jake, to your point, I agree! We are one of the richest schools in the country. If we really wanted to succeed here we would find the guy we wanted and sign him up instead of looking at resumes and finding the least risky and cheapest guy.
At least when we hired Garrett we were in some ways shooting for a home run. The guy had a great college career and was viewed on as a future star until his indescretion at Susquehanna 20 years earlier. We got him cheap because he was desperate for one more chance, we also got two more of his stud sons (John was already with us). He clashed with the admin right away, though, and the article in the Times sealed his fate pretty quickly.
Here is a question for the board: How would Tellier, Norries, Shoop, and Mangurian done as head coaches at Penn, Harvard or Brown? Same, better or worse than CU? I say each of them would have done better and I say it is because they don't get the support and commitment from the AD and Admin that the other schools give.
I did not mean to include PM in the post above. How in the hell did he succeed at Cornell? Did he behave the same way there that he does here (bunker in, hide from alumni, fans and former players, blame everyone else, etc)?
^ I wish I had more insight into Pete's time at Cornell. It is a black hole for online pundits to evaluate.
~~~~~~~~~
A bigger budget has to extend to the entire staff. A HC can only do so much. You need a brain trust and senior people. Other than Rippon and Argast, the current staff is all lesser experienced coaches. This leads me to believe the budget is not there.
I know I have taken potshots at him before so apologize in advance but what value is there to have Jamie Elizondo as OC? He's a high IQ but isn't strong enough a football guy. Of course the more senior staff will rotate in and out because better opportunities come their way. That is part of football coaching culture. These guys move quickly. CU SHOULD make a pitch to these coaches and recruit them as other programs do when they become available. I don't buy into the mediocre or less experienced coach approach because it contributes to the reasons we lose games as a result.
Also, you need facilities. You need dedicated meeting rooms with video equipment, not shared with other sports programs. Sorry, football is the revenue sport (or should be) so they need dedicated rooms for meetings and preparations all year. If they don't have that they are at a disadvantage.
Just shooting from the hip since I don't know the support infrastructure the football program has currently and I have never stepped foot in the new Campbell Center.
Al, Elizindo has been successful everywhere he's been so why does he only have IQ with us and no football ability? From Univ of Maryland to Canada he has gotten results.
Danny, you are an embarrassment to yourself. Elizondo has done absolutely nothing anywhere as an OC. Toronto was not his fault, the team was in decline but still, your comments are uniformed and consistently bereft of insight. What is your angle here, a misplaced Dallas Cowboys fan?
Al, Easy guy! This is not a life or death conversation. I asked you a simple question and your underwear turned into sandpaper. Elizindo had an 11 win season at Maryland under Ralph F. And your correct, Toronto was not his fault. If half of the passes thrown to our receivers last season had been caught, the team would have at least been competitive. Your insults are amusing but the Dallas Cowboys reference escapes me.
I am just speaking directly, not with sandpaper. You are a troll Danny and the shame of it is that you think people who read this blog don't know it. You and others like you and Bob seem to have an agenda but it is so off target and unconvincing that you have become a running joke - an annoying, gnat-like joke.
The problem Danny is that you articulate what you choose from other posts. You know nothing yet persist as if people don't see through you. Jamie Elizondo was not an offensive coordinator at Maryland. He was Assistant Recruiting Coordinator and
a three-year letterman on the Terrapin men’s tennis team. (grabbed that from their site, 3 second research project.)
The people on this blog have a genuine interest in CU football, regardless of criticism or praise. You are here to stick up for people without a valid counteroffensive.
Well thank you for your comments Al. Unlike you, I don't take anything personal especially from someone on the Internet. You need to look further than the Terrapin website for your facts. As for an agenda, there is none. I just don't make it a habit of jumping off the deep end over issues that will resolve themselves. But you do make me laugh so maybe that will be my agenda. Pissing you off!
You don't piss me off. Do you think anyone here is a rookie online? A troll is a troll and you are very obvious one. In fact, I think you are female doing your best to fit into the discussion and not able to hold up your end. You are possibly a relative associated with the coaching staff based on a number of clues you leave. If I were admin here you would simply be deleted.
So Mrs Danny, like all of your posts you completely miss the point (which is): Jamie Elizondo was never offensive coordinator at Maryland. You said he was. You also said he had great results at Toronto but then agreed with me that he never stood a chance there due to a degraded roster. So which is it? Neither because your only objective is to try and disrupt the exchange of info here.
Bottom line is Jamie Elizondo is no help to CU as OC. I'm not even sure he is worthy of being a position coach but that is for his future employers to decide.
No offense to women BTW, they are always welcome anywhere but not as trolls laying mines.
Now your a sexist Al? Why am I not surprised?
oh danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
from glen to glen, and down the mountain side,
The summer's gone, and all the roses falling,
It's you, it's you must go and I must bide
Earl, your message to Danny was incomplete:
"But come ye back when summer's in the meadow,
Or when the Hudson's hushed and white with snow..."
And definitely the next stanza:
"And if ye come and all the flowers are dying,
And I am dead, as dead I well may be,
The go and find the place where I am lying,
And kneel and say an Ave there for me."
And then above all for true Columbia fans, add this:
"And tell me if we've won an Ivy title,
But not in squash or even archery,
So I may rest there quietly forever,
And not spin in my grave eternally."
Funny guys!
Jake,
This blog is turning out to be the same crap as the anonymous was with names. Was signing as GP, but not interested in reading this garbage or adding solid useful comments at this stage of the blog. Please go back to anonymous, even the crazies were more interesting reads.
Awards dinner this week. Anyone going?
Tough situation, Pat. I don't remember any posts from you as "GP" much less a scintillating one. I offered a little different type of gallows humor here that I thought was right to the point of the fix the die-hard Columbia fan finds himself or herself in. NO info of any kind from the AD or Admin. Just BS and insults and requests for donations, plus a few NON-news releases that have as much info about CU sports as a back-page ad on hemorrhoid ointment. I'm guessing you're a university employe who doesn't like any truthful observation.
In most cities, even other Ivy ones, there's news, sometimes a lot, about sports at the city's biggest U.
The NY papers don't give a damn about Columbia sports, with good reason. Even Spectator doesn't have any useful info. They're in the dark like the rest of us.
And like us, they're doing a little squawking lately, but not nearly enough.
If you think my posts and others are so "crappy" as you put it, then why don't you share some of your marvelous information with us? Or else go back to your office and keep writing Murphy's fantasies for her.
Dear Pat, sorry I'll have to miss the Awards Dinner. My Mah-Jong jacket is at the cleaners this week. Actually I used to take a fall vacation and fly a long way to see a couple of CU football games every year but I'd have to be effing crazy to do that now. This AD and Admin have me almost that crazy but not quite totally yet, thank God.
Give my regards to Dianne and Lee. He once told me face to face in Wien Stadium (during his only visit there) that he was going to fix football. I didn't realize then how he spells "fix."
Mah-Jong jacket...funny as hell! I have to steal that line.
Chick, Your BABBLE is the same old, same old. I hope that you don't think that you and Danny have contributed scintillating posts. Shouldn't you be at a group therapy meeting of "Paranoia
Anonymous"? I prefer not to throw pearls at swine.
Pat, your babble is not "the same old, same-old." It is uniquely vile, vulgar and offensive. So now I'm swine and you won't cast your pearls of wisdom before me?
What wisdom, pal? You don't have any except your 0-10 mentality which looks at a 1-9 season as a reason for wild celebration. Are you a Columbia College graduate? I bet you're not, which is why you don't give a shit. Well I am and I do. Tell us if you're an alum, or are you an AD employe who cares only about hanging on to his failure of a job.
Chick, every comment you make proves my point. We now know that you are a pompous, under employed, name dropper, with an overly agressive personality disorder.
How's that for pearls of wisdom?
Divisiveness is a time-tested effective strategy to tear apart a resistance movement. Don't succumb to it. The only real problem with this blog right now is a troll using multiple IDs. She has been identified and all that remains is for Jake to start using the ban hammer. The troll is not savvy or clever and would have no workaround to a posting ban. That would be the end of it.
The point is to be a positive force in real change. My interest is CU football but obviously there is more at stake for many alums supporting other CU sports.
Personally I don't mind constructive support from the athletics dept in general IF it is in fact constructive. We have yet to hear anything from them that makes any convincing sense.
Do the people in the athletic department ever fear for their job security or better yet, do they ever get tired of being known as the doormat of the league? working for a perennail loser has got to suck and be a real drain on morale...
Pat, read my last comment and your reply. You have had nothing to say except harsh criticism for those who want at least some small measure of accountability. You won't even say if you're an alum or one of those responsible or anything else. You are a mind reader and a seer, however, divining that I am under-employed (never but sometimes I wish) pompous (just the opposite) and a name-dropper (is it Danny Boy you object to or Lee Bollinger?)
I did meet Bollinger during his walk-through at Wien. Is that a crime? I met another president once also, , as thousands have, via volunteer work for the U, so the man leading Bollinger through the stands to meet the alums knew me and stopped by. Attendance is so sparse at our football games that you can spot anyone you know with one glance at the "crowd."
You ask for honest comments on the topic. What's more honest than that our football program has stunk for 65 years and keeps getting worse.
What are your honest and constructive comments? Telling me that I have a personality disorder? Actually you're correct in one sense. I suffer from the personality disorder of being a Columbia football fan.
Since you don't care to help, just sue me.
Chick your funny
Danny, glad someone here has a sense of humor. You can borrow my mah-jongg jacket any time. It's spelled with
either one or two "g's"--I like the look of two, but take your choice.
Chick, I don't recall asking for honest comments on any topic. Frankly, I think most comments here are BS, including mine. I am a Columbia football fan, win or lose and will continue to support the players as long as I live, no matter the record.
I have stated this numerous times on this blog as GP, which you have failed to read. What I do for a living and what school I attended has no value in this discussion. Your comments regarding your jacket at the cleaners and not seeing any scintillating comments from GP, also are without value to this blog. I have also stated many times that I believe the 2014 team will be much better than the 2013 team. This was also discussed in detail on previous posts as GP, which stands for Grand Parent. What is your connection other than being a grad?
If the 2014 results are not better than the 2013 results that would be extraordinarily deflating. Even Pete and his marginally capable staff have to do better. It's not humanly possibly to be any worse.
Pat/GP,
do you mind if I ask how long you have rooted for CU? How long have you been a serious fan?
My point is, I am guessing not more than a couple of years. If you had been rooting for CU football for 20, 30 or more years you would have a much different opinion I suspect.
Chick, Danny, all grads.
Please enlighten me to the mental state of CU grads in 65 years if the football record at that point is 0/650.
Or 325/325; or 650/0. I fail to see why these numbers will cause your life's to be any better or worse.
WOF, not true.65 year Red Sox fan. Never gave up. FYI check consecutive sellout record in MLB. See my comment below.
Actually it is. We could lose by EVEN larger margins. But this won't happen. 3-4 wins this year.
Pat, but how long have you been a CU fan?
Our admin has been disinterested in football forever.
Boston had teams and owners that cared and they came close many times.
We have not come close!
WOF, What's the difference?
2 years 20 years. If your team is not winning, relish your other life's wins. Can an 0/10 year cause lack of sleep, depression, drug use? Get real! Will you be a basket case after 0 and 50 in the next
5 years? I hope not.
You don't get it, not winning is not the real problem. Lack of interest and support by the administration and being lied to year after year is the problem. don't know how to convey that to you but there is a big difference... Also, having been part of it makes it more real, too.
WOF,
You're missing my point. Enjoy the games. Go see a few away games.
Get caught up in the excitement of collage life again. Screw the administration. Every political figure lies to us. Help me cheer for my grandson and the life long friends he is making at Columbia, winning or not.
Pat, great philosophy!
Pat, I welcome anyone who roots for Columbia. It's a free country, and CU football needs all the help it can get. But your comments are so out of line they are funny. Unintentionally funny, of course, because you also get upset when I inject any humor into our situation.
But you are truly funny--unconsciously of course-- when you peevishly ask what's my connection "OTHER THAN BEING A GRAD." Are you serious? Is there a bigger connection?
You used to sign yourself GP and you now say it stands for grandparent. Me too. You don't even say if you're the GP of a Columbia player.
If you are, bravo to you and your grandson and best for the future. But how does that diminish my being an alum? That's the norm for college fans. I'm proud of my CU education and all CU sports, and even prouder that one of my kids is an alum and a fine medical doctor.
You're moaning because I wrote new lyrics in jest to "Danny Boy" tied to football and made a funny joke about a mah-jongg jacket in thesame vein?
You denied my remark that you demanded "honest comments" on this blog. Try reading your own post right here on this thread, about 20 comments above, where you addressed Jake and said this blog has become "crap" and "garbage" and that YOU are "no longer interested in making any solid, useful comments here." Wait, you really do have a hilarious sense of humor! You just don't realize it.
Finally, assuming you are the grandparent of a player or else whatever else is your interest in CU football, it seems that interest is recent. I welcome that as I said at the beginning of this comment, but that doesn't change the fact of disliking so many FB humiliations. I became a diehard CU fan the day I entered the college at age 17. A lot of thoughtless fans who've come aboard recently say "Why fret about losing? Get a life." I have a great life for many reasons, especially MY terrific grandchildren. And I've brushed off hundreds of losses without diminishing my life one bit. I'm not a ninny, I'm a fan. But I'm not going to stop being a concerned fan just to suit anyone else.
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