1) We keep hearing how great this coaching staff is despite
overseeing the worst season in Ivy football history last year. So, how many
games will Columbia football win this fall?
2) If you expect us to go 1-9 or better, which games will we
win?
3) We keep hearing how this was a great recruiting class. Name
at least five players in this class that you think have the best potential to
be All Ivy honorees at any time over the next four years.
98 comments:
Jake, impossible to name frosh potential all IVYs this early.You know who I am also and that my source is a good one, but I have to be careful about giving out inside info, that will stop if I tell too much.
I say at least 3 wins this year and 5 next year, don't know enough about opponents strengths to predict the teams we will beat.
5 potential all IVYs on squad now.
Okay, so noted. 3 wins.
If you don't want to name the teams we'll beat, can you at least elaborate on what part of our team will be good enough to actually beat any of our opponents?
Jake,
As I have stated previously, the D will give up 1 to 1 1/2 less TDs and the O will score 1 to 1 1/2 more TDs per game.
That will put us in a lot of games at the wire.
Jake, I'll play your game to show I'm a good sport. We will win 5 games. We will defeat Penn, Cornell, Dartmouth, Monmouth and Albany. We will play Fordham to the whistle and lose by a small margin. I don't know about freshman All-Ivies but I believe we will have 8 All-Ivy players excluding freshman.
2 wins:
like many typical CU seasons. A win against either Albany or Monmouth and then an upset against one Ivy.
Danny, if what you predict happens I will gladly and loudly proclaim I was very wrong about the admin and PM!
I will say 1-9 with the lone win against Yale. I just think Tony Reno is going to wash out and counting on Tyler Varga not being in the lineup due to injury.
I would like to think Albany is a winnable game but that program does have decent personnel and has had a hard time getting wins in their conference. They will not let the Columbia game get away from them so easily.
Yale, Cornell, Brown are winnable games. They don't have that much of a talent differential. They have enough to do damage if Columbia fails to get it going but still winnable games on paper in pre-season. Dartmouth just has our number or I would include them here as well.
Danny, you are smoking crack if you think Penn is a winnable game or if you genuinely believe Columbia even has the right to be on the same field as Fordham these days. They should have gotten rid of that game on their schedule. Playing and losing to Fordham is exactly the kind of demoralizing defeat they do not need.
Monmouth is ahead of us. They are obscure but still a better program top to bottom.
Forget about Harvard and Princeton (though P is a traditional upset win for us, I can't see it happening this season).
Al, I don't do drugs. Penn lost a great deal of talent to graduation and I believe we played them ok considering what we had. Penn is always a gutsy team but they can be beat.
Yes Penn can be defeated by better programs. They actually recruit very well so finding replacements for their guys is not an issue. Other than a healthy Nottingham, which everyone agrees gives the offense a fighting chance, what is your argument based on? We all know the freshman class is good (not great but good, maybe even very good but they have to play some games first). You have no proven running back, an OL that is veteran in name only, a defense that lost more than it gained in the off-season. How will the wins be achieved other than through fighting spirit?
Smoking crack is used metaphorically.
We should beat Harvard this year... I mean Harvard's band this year... After losing to Harvard 110-0 over the past two seasons, I believe Murphy will suit up the band to see if we can compete...
Guys, why are you taking shots at Jake? Alll he asked was a simple question? By the way, the correct answer is 0-10 (possibly 0-12 if we scrimmage ourselves) AND we may even trump last year's disaster on the Hudson. Don't shoot the messenger...
Has anybody hear from NHDC? What communication have they sent out about this upcoming season?
Will buy drinks at local pub after all wins past 3, to anyone who volunteers
their real name if they are a habitual user of this blog, 2 drink limit, because I can tell that there are some big drinkers here that could break me,
How about you naysayers picking up the tab after #5? Jake?
5 wins in what a hurricane? Albany has us at home and although we are between 2 conference foes, I just do not see that as a win. By the way albany's roster looks like they took all the local recruits from us.
Monmouth is going to be harder than most think and penn and Dartmouth just are not at the same low level we are at. Perhaps cornell, but I think that is still a question mark.
I just do not see how anybody can suggest wee will win more than 1-2 games given we have not upgraded our talent level significantly and we are coming off of the worst season ever.
Did I miss something or did Adrian Peterson and a whole slew of pro athletes get on the roster.
As far as predicting first team all ivy...how can one speculate on this? It is so hard to say and nobody could venture to guess.
Even money chance of another 0-10 year. Some possibility to beat Albany and Monmouth but unfortunately both are away games. Best Ivy chance is obviously Cornell. Possibly a competitive game with Yale but not if Varga plays.
Most exciting new player is qb Hall. Also DT Breckenridge and possibly LB Patterson.
Our best player is Nelligan. Hope he gets in the game.
Btw, I do a lot of drugs and could not come up with a thought process that amounted to what Danny white came up with. There is just no evidence to support the bluster he has so precisely thrown out. Although I give him credit for taking a contrarian approach, but like in any game of odds you have to know when to hold them and know when to fold them.
I hope the players do well, but as was my own experience, when a team is under manned at the coaching position, which is undeniable at this point, there is little more to hope for than not creating history.....again.
I see some new names making an appearance on the blog. Are you guys trying to get in on the free drink action?
Pat - last season every team we played dominated the
Iine of scrimmage. What is different this year? If the lines do not significantly improve, we will have another rough season.
Bob,
Unfortunately quickness can not be coached. Strength can be improved.
If D line does not improve, look for 3/4
in short yardage situations.
If O line does not improve, expect QBs to roll out more.
No telling until we see evidence on the field on game days.
Not sure if I can afford to buy drinks for all new people on blog, but happy to buy for 2+ games if they win 5.
It appears to me that Pat and I know the same people.
We will be waiting with baited breath for Brett's emergence as a mobile QB. That was the plan going in for Kelly Hilinski too apparently.
Hilinski at 6' 6" ? was only a pocket passer. Either way, if Nottingham doesn't learn to throw the ball away,
he won't last the year.
Rolling out will be by design, if the O line can't get the job done.
Why do I have to always repeat myself
before you get the point Wingman?
Pat, you can't roll out if your O-line can't block period. I'm not the coach but ask a coach or look it up. It's called moving the pocket. If you hang a QB out there, unless he is a running type of guy, he will get pasted.
Al,
As usual, you overstate everything.
Pass blocking is very different than run blocking. Basically, pass blocking is getting in the opposing player's way.
Buying time for the QB to have a little extra time and see the field better.
With a blocking back, even you could roll out 7-10 yds. and complete short passes. That will open up the running game. You've got all the terminology down, but pretty oblivious that you never played one minute of competitive football.
Al,
Have you been reading Football for Dummies again?
I only read football for dummies when we exchange comments Pat. How about this. If CU wins 2 games you don't have to buy me a drink. I'll buy the bar. If you are able to catch on video a single play where Nottingham rolls out by design and completes a pass I will pay for first year property taxes. otherwise, it's all on you.
What ever happened to Hilinski? Did he transfer, or just give up football?
It doesn't take expertise to see that rolling out current Columbia QBs FAILS. Or did you not see Jamie Elizondo and Pete's horrendous play calling and use of personnel last season?
I actually did play football in middle school and freshman year in HS. I wasn't very good but I was fast. I really liked returning kicks which they let me do thanks to my speed. Though I had to focus on basketball since that was where I excelled. I also really liked playing ice hockey.
Al,
My Lake Como villa?
I'd rather see you buy the bar at Carmine's after a home game, Will cost you more $.
Al,
I'm impressed!
Anyone with that background certainly qualifies to be a critic
of a coaching staff with multiple years of pro and college experience
I"ll bet you were attacking the game plans even back then in middle school.
Old Lion,
Believe me you don't want to know. It wii make you sick,
Sad story! Kid had potential.
I'm not so concerned about Nottingham's roll-out abilities as I am about his ability/understanding of getting rid of the ball before getting submerged. I witnessed his kamikaze act at the Fordham game last year and commented on it prior to the injury.
Regarding predictions, I'm thinking (hoping) 2-8, Cornell and some other gift. I will buy a round at Mel's (Bwy & 111th) upon our third win to anyone identifying themselves with a blog name.
Sadly, I rarely drink alcohol but believe me, I will drink WITH ANYBODY when we win these games! Long Island Ice Tea anyone?
Can I get in on that property tax bonanza?
The old trope about having to be a player to know the game is a tired one, especially on the internet where that stuff is relied on as a defense.
I would venture to say Pat, you have not grasped your own hazy logic.
I am curious if anyone who does know the game at a coaching level can verify if moving the pocket is the correct way to describe rollout protections. I realize there are lots of protection schemes but if you know if the phrase applies or not, speak up.
Football Outsiders Glossary, General terms defines the roll out as an organized protection utilizing the QB's ability to move in accordance with avoiding defenders. No listing for moving the pocket but I always thought that they were the same.
FYI: The linemen in the NFL and the Alabama and Oklahoma type teams can provide a moving pocket, not the average Ivy O line.
Historically, the best college QBs were
mobile guys that could throw and run.
Very few could do that in the NFL.
Al,
How can you expect 250#+ linemen to form a moving pocket that keeps up with your best athlete who is rolling out as fast as he can run?
Big Dawg,
I'm in!
Pat
Al,
I think a lot of info is hazy to you.
We can distinguish between a roll out and a sprint out and a scramble. A roll out is a designed pass play in which the qb does not locate in the conventional pocket but instead moves to one side or the other -- while still staying deep -- with the intention of gaining more time and better vision of the field. The linemen know it's a roll out and pass block accordingly.
A sprint out -- which is a great college play, mastered by Archie Manning in the old days -- can be a run or a pass based on the qb's read. The linemen block aggressively. The qb does not get as deep or float around as in a roll out. The sprint out is a great "weapon of the weak" but obviously you need at least a fast and durable qb so where does that leave us? I once saw a great hs championship game which ended 7-0 and the winning team ran the sprint out every play they had the ball.
A scramble is a broken pass play, can be either a drop back or roll out, in which there is a breakdown and the qb improvises. I guess Johnny Manziel scrambles a lot or maybe those were not broken plays, they just told him to improvise. I think in pro he may do well at first, then later will get crushed.
As I've written before, the main thing about football today (much as I regret it) is that the blocking rules reward size and strength over agility and technique. If CU wants drop back passing, that's fine but you need at least five really big bartenders in front.
Mitch S 68CC
I am asking those questions to you Pat. You are the one who said they can roll out the QB to bypass an ineffective OL. I countered with a) Columbia does not have a QB who can be effective rolling out, b) they would need to have a moving pocket to sustain that type of offense. Remember, they TRIED to do that last season. Look at the Fordham game and those ridiculous rollouts by Nottingham. They completely underestimated Fordham and failed to provide a game plan that afforded him adequate protection. They kept thinking they could go downfield.
For his part, Brett was unprepared for a pass rush - period. Does this add up to the coaching staff being so naive they thought their OL would hold off Fordham all game?
I will end this by predicting whatever the coaching brain trust does decide as a fixit strategy will not be enough. They do not have the personnel to pull it off. Addition by subtraction does not work well in this case.
Seriously, you guys don't get it do you? Who cares if Nottingham is a drop-back passer, or a roll-out passer. Our O-Line is beyond terrible! In fact, all you have to do is watch films from last year and stack your defense on the left side. It's an open invitation to multiple sacks. Regretfully, that is not an opinion, it' a fact!
Regarding these coaches and all of their Pro and Collegiate experience… did you miss the part where they have the distinction of being the architects of the WORST team in Ivy League history? I repeat, the WORST team in Ivy League history! Bravo to this “great” staff with all of their Pro and Collegiate coaching experience!
OldLion, regarding Helinski… it’s not a sad story, it’s a story of stupidity! He brought it on himself (not once, but twice). I’ll leave it at that. Hopefully, he has learned from his mistakes and will make it back to CU. If not, it’s a wasted opportunity on his part.
The funny thing is, if Nottingham stays, he will have played for 4 Head Coaches in his collegiate career… Harbaugh, Shaw, Pete, and TBD.
Al,
I think Mr. Gs definitions above pretty much put you in your place,
Send your CC info to Carmine's.
He sounds like a coach doesn't he.
Number 1,
The statement was that the staff has more experience than Alswingman. Not their expertise. Are you two related?
Danny, I take back the comment about you smoking crack. That one belongs to Pat. You own that one big guy.
What's important is not how many games we win or who we beat, it's how we play. If we look improved and more competitive that's a step forward and should lead to something better. I don't even care if we go 0-10 again as long as we play to our potential and create some excitement -- I do think we have the players to do that, let's see if the coaching improves as well so that it all comes together. There's an old saying that certainly applies here..."It's not whether you win or lose but how you play the game." Admittedly we played the game poorly last year, but there were some valid excuses. I for one am looking forward to improvement and I think we would all do well to share that optimism, as modest as it may may seem to some. I think it's a far wiser thing to do than hang the Sword of Damocles over the coach's head.
To Alawicius- why don't we just give the team "participating medals"? That way they can be awarded something just like T-Ball... Thanks for trying, we lost, but you did show up to play the game. Unfortunately, the Staff would not earn a medal because they have yet to show up.
And what is this about "valid excuses" for our poor performance last year? Hello, it's part of the game! Did you ever think that these kids were simply not prepared to play and that's why they got hurt? We are smaller, weaker, and slower than all of our competition. These kids have no opportunity to get better when there isn't a JV team to develop their skills. Pete is putting HS kids against men. You do the math! Look at what transpired over the past three years with this guy (and his "experienced" staff).
What will the excuse be this year? You all want to think that Jake is poisoning the water, however, all you naysayers all owe him an apology after this year! This includes you, NHDC, and the rest of you blind sheep that follow this administration in to the abyss of another record-setting low point in Columbia (collegiate) football history! Remember, we had a chance to get rid of this clown last year...
#1 Lion speaks the truth!
Alawicius, although I believe you have claimed otherwise, you sound like a very new CU fan.
Columbia is an embarrassment when it comes to how the admin approaches football and basketball. It has been that way for more than half a century. That cannot be a coincidence. The school just doesn't care about sports.
The day I arrived at CU they broke the freshman out into smaller groups of 20 or so for orinentation and we all were asked to introduce ourselves. When it was my turn I mentioned I was on the football team and I was immediately welcomed with a round of Boos. The admin feels that way about football, too!
You guys are going to have heart attacks and strokes carrying around all that anger at a program you can't do anything about regarding wins and losses. How has your complaining and bitching helped in this past century? Evidently, not much. Some of you played for the team and didnt win either. Your concerns are noted and documented. Now it's time to get behind the team. It's a new season.
WOF Reminds me of my freshman year. I came from the midwest and thought everyone loved supported the football team. I wore a football shirt to the first day of classes and after class the professor asked me if I was on the football team. I said yes and he replied "I just want to let you know you are taking a more worthy students admission spot at the university."
Forgot my prediction. 3-7
OldLion- good story, ambitious prediction.
What some of you do not realize is that we fully support these kids! I applaud them getting up at the wee hours of the morning, practicing, and then going to school. I go to 4-5 games per year cheering them on (and watching the balance of the games on-line). It is the hubris of this coach and his staff that is offensive. First, he wouldn't dress the entire team for home games. That meant that all of the sacrifices these kids made throughout the week were for naught, and these players had to watch the games from the stands. Thankfully, Jake made an issue out of it and things changed. Then there was (is) the weight issue (we remain the smallest team in the Ivies), followed by no JV team for development. Pete's continued excuse is that the cupboard was bare when he arrived and he needs more time to fix things (see Barrack Obama's re-election platform). I'm sure that he sold cars at one point in his life. The funny thing is that the NHDC, Administration, and key alums bought in to this dung! Good luck to the players, I wish them well!
Here is my advice to current players and their parents about hostility from faculty members. Immediately complain tho Dean Valenti. Me very admitted student has the right to be treated with dignity and respect. If I had a son who,was a player and the professor called him out, I would be at Valenti's doorstep in a heartbeat. These stories about faculty hostility are hopefully not representative of the great Columbia profs who loved varsity athletes, men like Jackson, deBary and others.
Pas, excuse the typos above, but you get the point.
My opinion is that the "negative professor" tale is mostly an urban legend. I attended during the mid-late 60's, and was not only a FB guy but also NROTC. I never once heard anything bad from profs or fellow students. Maybe that changed later, but honestly, almost every instructor is working on tenure. Why would they risk that grail to insult a student.
I also agree with OL about going to the Admin if that happens. After, of course, smacking the dimwit in the face. Intellectually, I mean.
Dawg,
Good advise to F Ballers to keep low profile. Recent club fight when thugs wanted to test toughness of players caused big problems for CU players.
Pat, your right because that situation hurt the team and the players. We can't afford to keep having kids make bad decisions and be lost for the season.
Big Dawg as much as you would like to feel that the professor was "fake" it wasnt. When I stepped on to campus in 1999 thats exactly what happened. Have of that what you will. My wife was a D1 athlete at another school and was horrified with how CU treated their athletes. I respect what you did while you were on campus. I also am a member of your group. To say someone was spreading an urban legend was a dick move. Sorry if thats a "millennial" term but Lit Hum was a bore.
I'm hearing good things about the defensive line recruits. So far, so good.
What "recent club fight"?
Wasn't recent. It was a bar fight. Columbia kids defended themselves. Unfortunately, they arrest the Ivy League kids.
Danny and Old Lion , sorry about the "recent", just heard about it.
Danny, it sounds to me that you know the whole story about KH.
Pretty sure he won't be back to CU.
I didn't see one Bob Kent-esque styled player in that entire recruiting class. Now the question is, how do we develop those kids to Bob's level; especially with out a JV team???
Pat, how do you think Danny knows all of his inside info & just happens to run into players in Times Square, etc. His act has worn thin but the kid is a dope and thinks he's untouchable.
Al,
I think Danny is a coach like me.
We both smoke the good weed and know who shot JFK.
In our off time from coaching we both hawk watches on Times Square.
In the rest of our spare time we think of things to lite you up.
Yes I do. I doubt he's coming back. Probably end up somewhere on the west coast after attending a JUCO. His brother is the one doing big things.
Pat, don't forget...we smoke crack too!
#1 Lion Fan, we're in trouble if you're our #1 fan. Your blatant negativity is irritating. How do you know the OL is terrible? Last year was last year, next year is next year, improvement is certainly possible, especially with several 290+ pounders coming in, all of whom excelled in high school. My bet is on Pete letting these guys stay big. We won't be the smallest Ivy for long, that's for sure.
My prediction? 2-4 wins, I won't say over whom because they will all pleasantly suprise us. Future All-Ivys among the frosh? I'll say QB Hill, RB Schroer, WR Briscoe and maybe WR Baty too who has lots of speed. On the OL I'll go for Stables, Flores, Parkune, and any one or two of the remaining guys. We have a lot of talent there so the OL will definitely be an upgrade.
On D I'll take Breckinridge and Heeb at DT, and any one or two of a flock of promising DEs including Talty...you heard Danny say the DL is looking good. Lots of hope at LB too, with Patterson and Caruso probably leading the way, but any of the others including Waters and Washington could be in there. At DB we'll have an all-star in Roane with Holmes, Weldon, and Early doing their part. Can't make a prediction about the kickers, but maybe our rugby import will shine.
So let's see, that's about 14 potential all-leaguers among this group, give or take a couple -- enough for you, Jake?
Forgot to mention DB Devin Williams who should be up there with Roane, another all-league type.
Pat, I can't even follow your commentary your grammar is so bad, even for the internet it is subpar. You have ghetto in you. At least Danny shows some sentence structure.
Both of you have succeeded in lowering the quality of discussion here. You must be proud of spending your time that way.
Al,
Your comments are bordering on the ridicules, almost insane.
I'm asking Jake here and now to monitor and delete most of your "Pearls of Wisdom", before you totally
embarrass yourself and everyone on this blog. Get back on your meds. Sometimes, not often, you make perfect sense.
GET HELP! You need it.
OLion (not oldlion)
If the prof dis actually happened to you, then I apologize. I can't believe someone would be that arrogant. I can see some students acting out their "intellectual" hubris by being negative, but not a CU employee. Acceptable bad attitude towards FB must have gotten much stronger over the years.
One wonders if the consistent horrible performance has played a role, or if it a chicken vs. egg question.
Danny, thanks for noting and documenting our frustratiion. Very sweet of you. If you are part of the program I wish you and your people would get a clue
Thanks Al! I got an A in Lit Hum.
Jake, I understand that you are a super comedy writer and satirist. Were you writing comedy when you wrote in 2011 that Carey Parker was the best offensive lineman with the best highlight tape you had ever seen? You endorsed him and consequently he has never played in a game. What are your credentials for evaluating talent again? I love reading your old blog posts.
Between Big Dawg and me, we can compose an all purpose put down to any instructor who attempts to embarrass an incoming football player, which goes along the following lines : who are you to attempt to stereotype me; do you have any idea of how hard I worked to get here; do you also insult other freshmen who do not meet your academic litmus test; are you saying that you would prefer that I not be in your classroom; and would you care to accompany me to Dean Valenti's office so that you can explain your position to him, because if I can't get a fair shake in your classroom perhaps I should be in another section and you should find another line of work.
Jake,
Is the above true? Are you Alswingman?
TIC.
Alswingman,
I am feeling guilty about intentionally
provoking you and want to apologize sincerely. I know we both want the football team to be the best that they can be. If we run into each other at a game, maybe you, me and Danny can have a drink to celebrate a win.
I'm all for it!
Danny,
Are you an NYC resident?
From Voy Forums, total # of Ivy Titles since '56
1) Princeton--440;
2) Harvard---384;
3) Cornell----220;
4) Penn------199;
5) Yale------187;
6) Dartmouth-133;
7) Brown-----119;
8) Columbia---94.
Below is the rankings since '04, we are trending upward but still way to close to the bottom. The big question is who will be the first apologist to argue that we have fewer overall sports so our performance is better than it looks?
Princeton 105
Harvard 78
Cornell 68
Penn 31
Yale 30
Columbia 26
Dartmouth 19
Brown 15
I think all we needed to hear from the Pete supporters here came from Alewicious who is now publicly on record as saying he's okay with another 0-10 as long as the team improves.
Sorry "Alawicious"
Yes, that was a doozy!
WOF
What is significant about the stats you post is that we are actually going downhill.
Of 26 titles in the last ten years, 15 came from 2004 - 2008. 11 came in the last five years. So we are averaging 2.2 titles/yr for the last 5 years.
This is slightly better than our 56 year average of 1.6, but not by a hell of a lot. AND, we have more sports available to get those titles than we did in '56.
Who knows anything about the rumors of DM leaving?
Big Dawg,
If true, hope we don't go from the frying pan into the fire.
Big Dawg,
Trying to get together with D. White after a home game to meet you at Mel's.
If we have at least one win we can each buy a round.
Being satisfied with an 0-10 season just as long as we are progressing??? That alone is reason enough to be kicked off the Blog!
"It's how you play the game..."
PS. Jake, if I'm a "Pete supporter" it's by default because it's the smartest choice with a new season ahead and Pete still with us. I really don't know why some of you guys can't figure that out.
Got to keep pounding him on his mistakes, because if he stays he might change his bad ideas. He already has regarding keeping the OL super light, (though he'll never admit he was swayed). Maybe soon he'll figure out that his pure pocket passing offense is a mistake too.
If you "play the game" so badly that you never win, you are not a sportsman, you're a doormat.
Inherent in "how you play the game" is the assumption that you'll win some and lose some, but if you play with honor and determination, losing some doesn't matter.
Our problem is beyond that. We don't win ANY!
Okay, Chick, but watch the negative hyperbole ("ANY!"). Don't forget we did win three year before last, and if the football gods give us a break, we may do as well or even better this year (although we're probably another year or two away from real repectability).
"Repectability" being always hard to come by ;)
yes we won three before last just like Pete won with another coaches recruits at Cornell.
Seriously guys, if we dont get ballers we are not going to win anything.
you guys argue about roll outs and scrambles. Here is a question, does it really matter what it is called when the QB is running for his life? our oline has been terrible and even at their weight can barely get outside to block.
hearing good things about the d line? really, just like we have a kid running a 4.39 in the 40..like big foot, often talked about but rarely if ever seen.
we are three years away because it will be year 2 for whoever the next against all odds coach we hire
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