I got rid of the athletic department and coaching staff trolls
on this blog a couple of months ago.
So the 1-2 commenters defending Head Coach Pete Mangurian are legitimate fans who
for some reason don’t see the reality right in front of their eyes.
So here it is in three quick points:
1)
Mangurian is destroying this team and the entire
program may not recover. Until he goes, or radically changes everything he is
doing, I’m not going to let up on him and neither should anyone who purports to
be a supporter of Columbia football. If you agree that Mangurian is a poor choice, then you have to stop making the weak claim that we should support him anyway for team morale. That makes no sense, because the thing that helps team morale is wins and Pete hasn't delivered. Now, you can claim that Mangurian is not hurting the program, but then you'd have to give me some proof. Anyone defending Pete from now on has to give us proof and not platitudes about being a "team player."
2)
The success of the other teams in Columbia Athletics,
such as it is, is NOT an argument for excusing Athletic Director Dianne Murphy for this egregious hire
and delay in dismissing Mangurian. It’s like excusing a child abuser because he
hasn’t abused his other kids. Murphy is becoming more and more aware of the fact that Mangurian was a terrible mistake, and yet she still does nothing. Her disdain for the football players and fans suffering under this guy is immeasurable.
3) I say “delay in dismissing,” because
Mangurian will be dismissed on
November 23, 2014, the day after the season ends. We will likely be 0-10 and Murphy - who is barely on speaking terms with Mangurian as it is - will finally have the courage to pull the trigger. I take no solace in knowing this,
because it’s obvious and also because it will be at least a year too late. That
may be just another year to us older fans, but it’s 25% of the entire college
career for the players. And it’s another wasted year as we will have to wait
for yet another rebuilding program to begin.
223 days to go...
45 comments:
I don't read into anyone here defending Pete. It's just well known by now that he will not be fired before the season starts. It would not make sense right now because of the planning and recruiting that has been done. It would be disruptive to the student athletes. Even an ineffective coach has to guide the large and new class of frosh into the system, get whatever overall system they have implemented for the entire team and give 2014 a go.
It is also well known that the team will probably not do very well. Barring a miraculous turnaround Pete will be a lame duck.
So what is being done to influence Ms. Murphy's direction after the expected chain of events occurs so that there is not another poor choice of coaching leadership installed?
well known the team won't do well! by whom before even the first game has started?
If this year is a similar disaster to last, you'll see my post. I trust you'll comment if that doesn't happen.
It is one thing to be optimistic but another to understand the logistics involved. Look at it from purely a handicapping standpoint (pretend we are in Vegas wearing toupees studying ivy league football stats).
CU lost their biggest offensive weapon to graduation. There is no ground game to speak of now (unless a freshman steps in and wows us) and the OL was so bad last year that they could not do much other than the occasional first down with rare TDs.
The defense is the strength of the team and they could not stop anyone with any consistency. It gets that bad when your offensive struggles and keeps you on the field all day.
The biggest problem with Columbia however, is not the talent on the field, it is in bad game planning. That has been talked to death here. You have to organize your talent to match a plan that works on the field. Pete hasn't done that (simplified summary). So the jury is out there if Pete is even capable of doing anything different to make the talent he has effective. Otherwise, the vegas handicappers see right through matters and will spot Harvard -42 or Fordham -32 (odds manufactured here for illustrative purposes only).
I think there is both a moral and a strategic advantage, once all the existing arguments have been thoroughly made, in waiting for fresh, new instances and evidence of wrongdoing and incompetence to present themselves, rather than repeating the same dispiriting point over and over again on slow news days.
The Lions lost some O to graduation but Nottingham is back, as are others who will help.
The LV smarties don't impress me. How much do they pay serious attention to the Ivies?
And, the coaches, who are supposed to know MBB best, picked Col for last.
No one is excusing Murphy. But, the records of all of the sports has to be factored in. The several successful coaches are also her responsibility, in other words.
Right now Nottingham has 1 reliable receiver to throw to, maybe 2. That is why I have beating the drum the season is fully dependent on the freshmen class hitting the ground running. If there are no aces in there it is looking grim. Just look at the depth as evidence.
I agree with Alexander Hamilton though a shame duels will still in fashion in his day. He looked unbeatable in The A&E movie The Crossing in 2000, kicking in doors and taking it to the Hessians.
As for Vegas, they pay plenty of attention to Ivy football. In fact, I have seen point spreads on games since the early 80's, every game on the schedule every week.
Connors and Nelligan are very good receivers.
In Ivy League news, Princeton just hired a new AD:
http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S39/75/67O38/index.xml?section=topstories
Forgot about Connors. I was thinking Nelligan and Hollis but Flannery too now that I think about it. Overall, a decent group but not enough to carry the day.
Add at least one of the tight ends to the group of capable receivers, as well as the incoming potential all-Ivy Marcus Briscoe. That gives us about 6 good receivers with still others possibly popping up out of a crew of 13 WRs (counting the two or possibly more incoming freshmen). If Nottingham delivers behind an improved O-line and we get a ground attack going, plus a potentially outstanding freshman QB in Anders Hill (#1 high school QB in Colorado), and improvement in the other two or three backup QB's, we may surprise. If we do, Jake and the others who give us no chance at all, what will you say? I predict you will be speechless or repentant, mark my words.
Connors has the best hands on the team. Last year he was injured a lot, which kept him off the field. He also runs excellent patterns. Nelligan has good size and can be excellent if he can stay on the field. Flannery was somewhat inconsistent. Hollis is a good slot type receiver. The rising sophomore crew had the dropsies, gave up on patterns, and were very inconsistent. They all had good size and speed. There should be some decent competition at WR.
While you're of course welcome to claim that "you" got rid of the "athletic department trolls," Jake, I suspect many of those no longer posting were simply garden variety nutters with no actual connection whatsoever to CU. The Web is that kind of place.
Men's and women's tennis both need winning weekends to guarantee Ivy titles. And, of course, baseball faces a crucial four-game weekend up at Cornell if we're to have a real shot at overtaking "division" leader Penn. (And why, come to think of it, do we even have a two-division conference in a league with only 8 teams?)
Free speech for all. That's the only way to go in life, and here too. I don't mind Jake's staying on Pete's case, harsh or not. It's Jake's right to criticize, just as Pete had the right to accept the job knowing the program is always on life-support. If he can't hack it, it's on him. I doubt his coaching ability is harmed by anyone's criticism. If anything, it might keep him focused on his job--winning.
The upcoming season is similar to an election. We have to wait until then to get rid of a disaster...or maybe witness
a turnaround that changes the vote.
Who here can confidently predict anything about the season that starts in five months? Except that the results will decide the "election." Mangurian owns last year's freshman class and the incoming one too. There are still a few players from the previous regime that stuck with him. So now it's up to him to prove he can coach with what he's got. I hope Columbia is 10-0. I can't wish anything different. I know it won't be 10-0 but I don't know what it'll take to save his job excep that it has to be markedly better than last year.
Al2, if the team is successful I would be very happy for them. I am a supporter of the program. I just call it like I see it (which sort of reflects that of an oddsmaker even though I am not a Vegas gambler).
Major changes have to occur with how this program goes about preparing. We can't just say, well, a new year, new attitude, new players, let's get 'em fellas. That is a traditionally tried and failed approach with CU football, long before Pete got there. Where Pete did not get it right was trying to install a sophisticated scheme (at least on offense) in an effort to elevate the team's chances. That ended up backfiring when the personnel did not match up.
So, bottom line is how a team prepares is what is most critical. The rest of the league is ahead of us as far as that goes. They have a foundation to build off. We do not. So like it or not. we are way behind the rest of the pack and right now, do not match up to any team on the schedule, including SUNY Albany who are pretty decent and well coached.
I think it's relevant that all the players who were on the roster at the end of last season are back. This means they have hope of doing better and they're not in rebellion against Pete, despite his flaws. If he's able to correct at least some of those flaws (especially game planning), we should improve. Whether we have the manpower to match up to the teams we face and perhaps improve substantially is another question.
...and before anyone mentions Albany went 1-11 last year, look at their schedule. Old Dominion, James Madison, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Stony Brook - all well seasoned FCS teams. Has Penn ever done well against Villanova? It's no contest in terms of strength of schedule.
The only weak spot on CU's schedule is Cornell and their problem is defense. They will probably will do just fine with replacing Mathews at QB.
Spears and Cieslak are gone. Maybe more.
New class announced.
The new class looks pretty good on paper. Two brothers of current player DeMuth and former player Popeck. I know that the younger Popeck was heavily recruited in the league. There is a good sized DB who runs a 4.39 40, and the QB Anderson Hill looks good on tape. There are a couple of road graders for the OL and one potential power back. No FB in the class.
The new class looks pretty good on paper. Two brothers of current player DeMuth and former player Popeck. I know that the younger Popeck was heavily recruited in the league. There is a good sized DB who runs a 4.39 40, and the QB Anderson Hill looks good on tape. There are a couple of road graders for the OL and one potential power back. No FB in the class.
It's not because he didn't want to play that Cieslak isn't there -- be fair, Jake. Spears didn't see any playing time and had other reasons to head west, plus we're pretty set at TE.
The new class looks very good, my only concern is RB, although if Schroer is quick enough he could be a good one, certainly strong enough.
One of the two new names on the recruits list, Landon Baty, made his mark at safety and was all-state at that position, but was also a good back-up tailback averaging about 7 years a carry, and also a good kick returner. I don't think he played any WR but apparently is being switched to that position to play for us and does appear to have the skills for it. AND he came to us after de-committing from his first choice, see article below (scroll down a ways).
http://www.mercurynews.com/peninsula/ci_25074499/signing-day-surreal-and-dream-come-true
Since I don't access this blog very often, I may be off base. Is the post here the first time the number of players not returning, 2, who could have has been noted?
If it's any where near that number, some of the criticisms of the coaches, atmosphere, seems over-the-top.
I look forward to comments.
Because LV lists Ivy games, has for years, doesn't mean the bookies know about the teams in any depth. It just reflects some interest in betting on them.
Given:
The talent this year on the field will be better. Why? Nottingham will be @ QB, and all the underclassmen are 1 year older, bigger, etc., along with the wild card of new recruits.
However, unless the coaching improves significantly, it will be to no avail. Why? Let me count the ways.
1) A strong, accurate passer who somehow does not understand the concept of getting rid of the ball when surrounded.
2) Plays designed to adequately protect said QB.
3) Receivers who can catch.
4) Secondary who know the concepts of how to pass-defend.
5) OL who know how to block.
Last year wasn't just about going 0-10, it was the way we did. A complete lack of demonstrated competence in basic skills. Add to that some questionable play calling/game planning. But until evidence is shown that the coaching staff is actually coaching; actually imparting skills and techniques that, quite frankly, one would have expected these recruited athletes to have mastered in HS, I see no reason for elevated expectation next year. Oh, we may take a couple of games for various reasons, but so what?
If 0-10 could be excused, it would have been that we lost, but we showed evidence of improvement, of learning. I saw none of that last year.
I am still hopeful for the team. It does, after all, spring eternal. I believe the first game will show us all. Not whether we will win necessarily, but how we play. In the meantime, fingers crossed. There truly are no more excuses after this season.
Well said, Big Dawg. I don't know if the coaches will mature but but I am hopeful the players will. One thing we pussyfoot around here is the personal accountability for
players to improve. Bloggers correctly howl about foolish tweets but claim it's off limits to expect a player to block a little, or hold onto a ball thrown right into his bread basket? Nineteen, twenty-year-olds are legally adults and the bulk of football rosters. If they want to play D-1, they have to do the work. Players together with coaches are accountable. It truly takes a team effort to turn this around. As you said, fingers crossed.
RLB, you reveal ignorance. You have no idea how sports bookmaking works. Every game that has a line (odds, spread, etc.) is set by professional analysis. It's not what the hey, back of the bar discussions type of thing. Ivy sports that are bettable get scrutiny like every other game worthy of a line. There;'s a reason why Vegas sports books are a huge money business.
Sometimes they do not give a line for Columbia football games because bookmakers don't like to provide too high a spread. I have seen Harvard -28 and higher and that is risky (even though they usually end up covering easily).
There is no sign of a U. of Minnesota transfer on the recruits list, and Pete said that the total number of players would be 98, the 64 current players plus the 34 recruits. Anybody know anything? We could certainly use another RB.
Odds are impacted by betters. Lines are volatile, change by how many place bets on which teams' spreads.
In response to someone who suggested I may be a plant by the AD and/or the coaches, I laid out some details about my Columbia connection. How about others doing the same?
Could a few be other teams' boosters or worse?
Lion baseball swept Cornell this weekend and is now deadlocked with Penn at 13-3. Our guys have won 13 in a row. Next weekend is a four game set with Penn. Hopefully we will get a great crowd for the two Saturday games at Baker Field. And for those of you who haven't been to a Columbia baseball game in recent years, the facility is absolutely first rate.
May BB keep chugging along. The Penn series should be exciting.
Re: betting lines/odds. (apologies in advance if this sounds pedantic)
It's a business that requires clients. Initial odds/spreads are set with an eye towards potential final results, and to attract action. However, from that point on they (odds) are shaped by participation. So if bettors on the underdog lay out more money,the odds will shrink as the bookies "lay off" (bet) some of that money on the favorite to protect themselves against the upset. This is why local odds are usually not as favorable as national odds if the local team is playing and fans bet them heavily.
Also, bookies don't make money on who wins/loses, because of said lay off tactic. They make it on the spread itself, because they win all ties and also the 1/2 point spreads you see. They also charge a certain small fee on losing bets.
RLB, Sure thing.
I am a former player from the 80's and long suffering Lion fan. Tired of decades of incompetence and apathy...
Thanks, WOF.
The constant negative bullshit here gets old. Is there ever going to be anything constructive about the team? Are we going to discuss anything other than the doom, gloom, or Jake's obsession with Mango?
What has the coach done for us to feel anything but doom and gloom? The team is bad and his personality is worse. Can't believe Dianne hire this guy knowing that his personality was going to be an issue.
I do agree the criticism of Pete is tired by now. It was old during the season as well but at least then he could do something about it - which he didn't. He has been slow to respond to the woeful season and develop a social relations platform. Though he has been more forthcoming lately. I am in favor of giving him the benefit of the doubt for the next few months. It's not going to matter what his social outreach is if the team goes 0-5 to start and 0-10 to finish.
If the team does well then we can take photos of egg on our face.
wingman,
It just reeks of bad decision making to hire a guy with such questionable people skills. If as has been alleged by the coach, that the plan all along was to take two (OK ten) steps back in order to move forward by benching upperclassmen and taking a beating with the younger guys, then it would have been paramount to have a coach who is also a salesman in order to keep the circling wagons at bay.
Aftyer all these years it is both mind boggling and frustrating that Dianne hired this guy, she had to know that his personality was going to be a turnoff.
I'm with Steve T., RLB, alswingman and anybody else with some decency and the common sense to be positive and supportive. Jake's rant that Pete will be fired after the last game next season and the team will be 0-10 verges on the psychotic and is certainly childish and just plain stupid. Pete wants to succeed just as much as anyone, probably moreso...don't be morons, give him and the players a chance!
I have no problem that you want to root for the guy, I'd be thrilled if he were to surprise the hell out of us, too, and I'll be the first guy to gladly say I was wrong about him.
I just hope none of you are jumping for joy and buying into the future if we wind up another 3 win season.
alawicius, anyone with common sense would think a turnaround at this point would be miraculous.
Even if that were true, WOF, miracles are not uncommon in sports. Outsiders might say, "Columbia has a baseball team? A team that has won 14 games in a row?? And a basketball team that won 21 games and two games in a post-season tourney?? Columbia??!!
alawicius, how many years have you been involved with CU football? You were the one that originally brought up common sense, why not use it?
WOF, I was there in '61 when we won our only title. I was at the forefront of a cheer march around campus at that time. I played sprint football, starting fullback and linebacker, followed by seven years of rugby with the Old Blue. Not too many have endured as much elation/disappointment as I have (mostly the latter, of course). But I was there when we were the champs, so why not again? Under Pete? Anything's possible, let's see how we do in the fall.
Thanks alawicius. I was with the program beginning in early 80's and still waiting for elation...
Anything is possible, true, but common sense would indicate that Pete has done a horrendous job to date and the future looks bleak.
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