Former CU Head Coach Bob Shoop, now an assistant at Penn
State, is looking for another head coaching gig.
ESPN.com discusses Shoop’s story today and includes some quotes about his time
at Columbia.
Of course, it leaves out some very important facts.
I’ll address the uglier one first. When Shoop was first
fired in 2005, he still had young kids and I refrained from publicly writing
about the alleged affair he had with a female staffer in the CU administration.
But that was a huge reason for his dismissal, especially since there were some
public scenes, (including one at a practice), that embarrassed everyone.
The second issue was that then-newly hired Athletics Director
Diane Murphy had not hired Shoop and
she wanted her own person in the most prominent coaching position.
Shoop’s personal failings coupled with the disastrous 2-8,
(0-7 Ivy), 2005 season made it easy to dismiss him.
I still think firing Shoop was the right call, he was yet
another wrong fit for the job here for many reasons.
But I also think he may turn out to be a great head coach if
he gets another chance someday. He’s certainly paid his dues in the college
ranks at many different levels.
If Shoop does succeed, he’ll be just about the only failed
CU head coach to do so.
Every head coach CU has fired since Frank Navarro hasn’t
done much afterwards. Some didn’t even try, and others like Larry McElreavy are still trying very
hard and showing a great love for football by coaching and advising anywhere he
can.
I admit I have really come to champion McElreavy’s cause
ever since I really became educated about the nature of alcoholism and
addiction and how hard people like him work to beat it.
But the bottom line is that Shoop is a great example of how
Bill Campbell and the other powers that be in CU football are just unable to
hire the right coach… ever. Good hiring is a real skill and we will continue to
have poor hiring if we continue to rely on Campbell’s instincts and the poor
research and vetting skills of his underlings in the department.
As much as I want Pete Mangurian out, we cannot expect a good
result if Campbell, Ted Gregory, et al have anything to do with the search
process once Mangurian is gone.
Again, NO ONE is saying Campbell, Gregory and some of the others are bad guys. They just can't hire good coaches. It's as simple as that.
We need a new coach and a new team to hire him and that's what this is all about.
33 comments:
I had absolutely no idea about an affair with a CU staffer. That is pretty low, especially when he's a family man. As for Shoop being the right fit, I thought it was a good hire at the time. I'm not sure where it came apart. There were good players on the roster and they were fairly competitive, just fell short more often than not.
Coaches in the Ivies, and especially at Columbia, really need to understand the players and what they are and aren't capable of doing.
Ray Tellier was a very good coach. He lacked resources. His teams were generally competitive beginning at around his third year.
I believe one or two of our coaches since Navarro would have succeeded if they were supported by an Admin that was committed to helping the coach succeed. It's not all their fault all the time.
That being said, I am sorry Jake but I'll never let a good word about McElreavy be shared without the truth about the man also being told. He was a liar, a bully, a creep, a fraud, and every other bad thing you can think of. The way he treated the seniors to be (class of '87 guys) his first year at CU is unforgivable and shameful. He should never be credited for breaking the streak because he is the reason the streak ever became historic. He lied to players, he lied about players, he lied whenever it was convenient for his agenda, and he lost several players because of it.
The list of people that coach Mac has yet to make amends with has got to be miles long.
OldLion, respectfully, Ray Tellier was NOT a good coach. He was (is) a good guy, but not a good coach. His record is abysmal! He had one team, the "HOF" 1996 Lions (and that is a joke, as Jake so eloquently stated).
Again, no offense to you OldLion, but this "didn't have the resources" argument is a joke! Every coach we hire uses that as a cop-out. To me, it's another excuse, like when Pete said that Norries left the cuppard bare. These are just convenient excuses! Brown, Penn, Cornell and Dartmouth don't nearly complain as much as we do about "resources". I didn't choose Columbia because of its gym, I chose it for the University!
What is even more shameful is moving from the travesty of the Jim Garrett exit and walking right into Larry McElreavy. That right there stands as the ultimate proof of administrative ineptitude. Who is vetting the candidates? It's an abomination.
Beg to differ gentlemen there must be some other former CU coaches who have gone to have success after their tenure here.
Yes,there are plenty of former CU coaches that have gone on to have very successful careers, most notably Chip Kelly, who our administration decided in their infinite wisdom not to hire; and then again the Tom Gilmore saga... No need to elaborate there. The Hot Dog Committee, Diane, et al just can't pick good coaches, it's that simple!
When did Chip Kelly apply for the HC job? Wasn't being coach of the secondary his first coaching job? He had no experience to base his candidacy at that time.
My point was no ex-head coaches of ours from football ever did much post-CU
I believe after Columbia Frank Navarro won a D-3 national championship at Wabash College. (Ezra Pound was no longer teaching there at the time.) Then Navarro went to Princeton and did not accomplish much.
Mitch S. 68CC
When Chip applied, he was the Head Assistant/Offensive Coordinator at New Hampshire with several years of coaching under his belt; not just a secondary coach.
Jake, it was clear you were talking about head coaches all along...
Shoop de boop, da be-bop re-bop baby hoop da boop!
I believe that's how the Nathan's Hot Dog Committee
selects head football coaches.
That is a big loss for Columbia if Chip applied when he was at UNH. No one in the AD bothered to look at what the guy was doing. He did enough to attract the attention of U Oregon and their mega million revamped program.
Can't find any details on Shoop's indiscretions online. It would be irresponsible to wreck the guy unnecessarily but shame on him if it is true. If you're not happy, get a divorce. Don't have kids just because you can and then mess around (if that is what happened). Can't stand that. When I hear about it among friends of mine (regardless if they are valet parkers or CEOs/big cheese types) I tell them they are stupid despite their worldly accomplishments.
In this modern, "progressive" era, whenever Columbia is fortunate enough to learn it a has talented young coach on staff who might do great things, it hastens to get rid of him. We wouldn't want anyone with the nasty attribute of knowing how to win. How gauche!
I question the necessity of airing this sort of personal information on this blog.
I question the necessity of airing this sort of personal information on this blog.
I question the necessity of airing this sort of personal information on this blog.
If the AD made a public pitch to bring in a name coach like say, Mack Brown, and pay the guy beyond what other Ivy coaches are getting, that would send the type of message I would like to see. Brown will have all kinds of opportunities at the FBS level (he is only 62) but you never know what kind of job would interest him, especially after the fishbowl at Texas.
Such an outward display would also tell Pete where he stands (on quicksand).
What do you say CAEC? Pool those resources and talk to Mack about pitching his worth to the AD. Then have them bring him in for an interview. No matter the job is not currently open. Just interview knowing full well the position will be open in November.
Remember when the rumor was Sam Rutigliano was interested in the job? I wonder if that were true or if it got intertwined with Garrett, who was a Browns Scout before coming to CU.
In thinking about it more, Mack Brown does not seem to be a good fit for NYC in general. Though, someone of his caliber and a "name" candidate would be ideal. If the AD had a notion, any number of excellent FCS candidates can be found. BUT,I am thinking a big hitter who has ESPN notoriety in the 1-2 million salary range just might make a the right kind of immediate difference. Someone who can step in and bring a solid staff with them (add another mil or 2 to pay them), give them housing for themselves and their families (another 1-2 mil), see how if any measurable impacts work in the program's favor through a 2-3 year period.
Of course I am coming from a silicon valley perspective where a few mil is regarded as an expendable venture. If the University has 5 mil to invest in such a project, it could be a worthwhile solution to pursue. What else do they have to lose?
We have the money, not the will... and most importantly a GREAT FEAR of "what the other boys will say about us." You think Harvard cares what the other Ivies are saying about Amaker the recruiting for hoops?
Completely agree with above.
Money is NOT an issue. If we had the right guy, we could get alumni contributions to fund him if needed.
I don't know if we are as worried about the other Ivies. I think it is more an issue of just not having the will to win. Period. Not at the Pete level, but above him.
Someone gets dropped by a D-1 program, so we start projecting him as the Columbia coach? Is that how it works? Sorry but Mack Brown would be a terrible fit for Columbia. In fact, with the possible exception of PM himself, it's actually hard to imagine anyone less congruent with what needs to be accomplished here.
In the years I've followed this blog I've seen the full spectrum from high school coaches (Greg Toal) to D-1 coaches (Brown) proposed for the CU job. It's what Lou Holtz (hey, what about him!) used to call "grab-bagging." Not a good sign. Not good at all.
No projecting or proposing going on here, just musing. You can take that wad of panties out of your crack now. Mack just happens to be a high profile coach that is available at the moment. BTW, your reasoning is shortsighted but you knew that already.
Al you rub EVERYBODY the WRONG WAY. Have you noticed that?
I am fine with you, Al, keep your opinions coming.
Mack Brown would be a failure if the admin hired him here. That is what happened with Garrett. They thought they were ready to make the commitment, they told Garrett they were ready, but when Garrett did what he said he was going to do and run it like a major college program, the admin realized they did not have the stones for that.
It would be the same for any big name accomplished coach. Until the admin really wants to make a change things will always be the same here...
I am fine with you, Al, keep your opinions coming.
Mack Brown would be a failure if the admin hired him here. That is what happened with Garrett. They thought they were ready to make the commitment, they told Garrett they were ready, but when Garrett did what he said he was going to do and run it like a major college program, the admin realized they did not have the stones for that.
It would be the same for any big name accomplished coach. Until the admin really wants to make a change things will always be the same here...
"Wad of panties out of your crack"? This guy went to CU? Good thing there was no Twitter back then.
Mitch S. 68CC
Meanwhile I am worried that we could lose the best coach in recent memory, Brett Boretti, based upon a report on the Columbia basketball blog that the administration is afraid that we could lose him to another program that will pay more! That in a nutshell tells you all you need to know about the problem with Columbia sports. We have aomce in a lifetime guy building a legacy and we may let some cow college steal him away over a few bucks! This is baseball, not a seven figure slot like in football or basketball, and we seriously think we may not be able to keep him over money? Give me a break.
Glad to see you get your dander up, Old Lion. Why an elite university with plenty of $$$ doesn't want a competitive major sports program is a question we deserve the answer to.
Remember, this thread began with an Admin action re the CU sports Hall of Fame. That's what we get from them, PR. Bad PR.
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