What’s especially jarring about this 2013 season is that I
really can’t find one thing that’s uniquely good about Pete Mangurian’s performance as the head coach of this team.
I’ve noticed that all the “defenses” of his tenure actually
don’t mention anything positive that he’s done. It’s all actually a form of
hysterical counterattack.
So here’s a challenge; let’s be fair and give someone –
anyone – the chance to tell us why Mangurian shouldn’t be fired right after the
Brown game.
And here’s the catch; you CAN’T just attack me, Des Werthman, etc. or use any of the following
oft-used, but erroneous arguments:
1)
“The people calling for Mangurian’s ouster aren’t
football coaches, so they don’t know what it’s like!”
2)
“Columbia has always been bad, it’s just in the
stars.”
3)
“Another coach at some other school was once
doing really badly too, and then he got better… so the same thing could happen
here!”
It would be very helpful if the defender/defenders would
also address the following questions:
1) Why
is this CU team losing by historic margins, even by Columbia standards?
2) Admittedly,
the lower-weight experiment on the O-line is not working. When will it work, if
at all?
3) Why,
other than injury, are so many experienced players not being featured on the
field as regulars or starters? Specific explanations for the marginalization of
All Ivy players Hamilton Garner in 2012 and 2013 and Scott Ward in 2012 would be very helpful.
4) What
real evidence – not HOPE – do you see of any improvement?
So there you have it. For anyone who is delusional enough to
think we don’t allow opposing views to be heard here, this is your chance to
have your say. I doubt any real defense of Mangurian can be made following the
above fair parameters, but give it a go!
28 comments:
Ok, I'll take a stab at one of them! :)
"What real evidence--not HOPE--do you see if any improvement"
Expectations for Columbia were decent going into 2013 (the Ivy media poll notwithstanding). The team sustained some awful injuries and lost players expected to be major contributors. If those guys return next year fully recovered, coupled with the younger guys who gained experience (albeit in blowouts), one can't help but expect improvement in 2014.
And Princeton. And four years to prove yourself, yada yada.
How's that?
This is just excuses. What POSITIVES have you seen this year?
There are crickets chirping in NYC.
nice looking new uniforms?
I'll need confirmation that Mangurian had something to do with the design!
Did he have anything to do with getting Georgetown on future schedules? That's two wins right there!
Here is what the administration answer will be: the program was in much worse shape than we had thought and was competitive only because we were fortunate enough to have Sean Brackett on the field for the last few seasons. In a sense, Sean's tremendous talents were able to camouflage the inherent weakness of our recent recruiting efforts. Pete recognized that he would have to take his lumps but hoped that the strong right arm of Brett Nottingham would permit him to steal a few wins while he rebuilt the program from the bottom up. Simply looking at the results on the field this year is looking through the wrong end of the telescope. Next year we will have a healthy Nottingham and a much bigger and stronger team which will have learned from the adversity of this year.
Old Lion: the problem is, we won't even get the decency of that response or ANY response from the administration. They will ignore the huge questions surrounding Mangurian and hope they go away.
The ability for the younger kids to play has certainly provided them with invaluable experience which should only help next year. Columbia will have three years of Mangurian recruits and so the team should be of the ilk that fits his schemes.
we saw signs of quality from the quarterback position prior to injuries and even as recently as last week against Cornell.
the offensive line being undersized is a problem. However, with a zone blocking scheme that they understand they should be able to out quick the other teams and now be reliant upon mass to out muscle. they should also be able to get larger as they mature.
OK, i am honestly trying here, but this is a very daunting task.
He kept the footballs at the proper inflation levels extremely well for practices.
by ebing standoffish he brought the "other" (read non NHDC)community of former athletes closer together.
Jake, I have to believe your 3rd point is the most disconcerting "so many experienced players not being featured on the field as regulars or starters". I'm hard pressed to believe that Hamilton Garner couldn't be a reliable catching option at tight end, or even receiver, with all the drops we have seen from the young wide receivers.
Garner has been healthy all season. Why is he seeing the field so relatively rarely. In 2012, Ward wasn't even invited to camp! Even a coach most eager to hand things over to his own recruits shouldn't be so suicidal as to bench the players who can help him win in the short term. But Mangurian has. All the praise he lauded on Garner in the preseason seems to have been a canard.
This post has been up for a few hours now and there really isn't a decent defense here. How could there be?
Looking again at what you wrote about Dartmouth after 2008.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/155516-view-from-the-bottom
Tons of injuries. Check.
Completely overmatched. Check.
Young players getting playing time. Check.
Getting weak teams at home next season. Check.
Granted, you do say that Teevens is a nice guy. :) Other than that, not tons of difference between your analysis of Dartmouth and what happened here.
And by the way, good call on saying in that article that Dartmouth would be competitive in 2010. You pretty much nailed it!!
teacher mike 196
aka
Mike Halpin
Pete kept the snow away all season. Now that is a super, super positive. Perhaps he can bring the same meteorological success to a Canadian professional football franchise.
The poster above is revealed as simply a troll. The fact that one persons failure later turns into success obviously has no implication for the same thing happening to anyone else. Are you a CU grad, sir?
Again, I can't help but notice that no one who is supporting Mangurian is A) making a real case FOR him and not just AGAINST us, and 2) willing to I.D. himself.
Hey Pete: your top supporters aren't even to tell anyone their names! How does that work for you?
First step-one more year of poor performance
Second step-need to recruit lineman, winning starts with a good o line.
Step 3-simplify the game plan and play book
Step 4-put kids in a position to win
Step 5- put the nastiest sob's on the field
Step 6 repeat until winning.
Oh, I answered next weeks question.
Find out if the OC at Princeton is interested. That is a lock for more reasons than one and its no use re hashing the demise.
Absolutely Jim Perry should be interviewed right away. He should be given a shot.
O line and TE coaches are usually not the pedigree for a head job. Hell, mangurian hasn't even been a successful coordinator any where and certainly can't pick a good one.
OC for Princeton! Absolutely! Go back and watch the tapes the last two years. Coached Pete s pants off in 2012. And then did it again this year. They were fun to watch. Pay him!
Mistaken. Mangurian was an OC for 5 -11 Falcons, offense ranked 20th out of 32 and was fired, the next year they where 11-5 with out him. Never an OC again.
Jake, I just got my hands on the answer that Pres. Bollinger has prepared to reply to your challenge. Here it is, word for word.
Ae President of this world-renowned university whose football team is a laughing stock even to the monks in Tibet, it is my responsibility to cultivate all improvements in a manner which is organically beneficial to all segments of the university. Therefore the football improvements are designed organically to enhance the health of all departments, just as an organic vegetable~say a big fat rutabaga- enhances not only the dining hall but all our institutional endeavors. For a specific football example, Coach Mangurian's rule that all players must be skinnier than an anorexic middle school girl will immediately open up a great deal of space on campus. This will allow me to increase my world-renowned and court-rejected affirmative action program to train dull and fumble-fingered students as brain surgeons. One hundred half-sized football players will create space for 50 such pre-meds. This is how the organic process of improving football melds with the over-all
health of the university. --Sincerely, Lee Bollinger.
(The above message has been approved by the Big Ten Football Conference of Tibetan monks.)
P.S.-"Roar. Lion, Roar!"--President Lee
Love it!
Hi Jake
I, as you, am highly distressed by the 2013 football season. In 75 years (that’s right!) of watching Columbia football I have never seen a worse team or worse results. In the very early years,- late 1930s and early 1940s my father took me (He was Columbia College ’20 and Law ’21) We played competitively with Michigan, Wisconsin, Georgia, and other nationally ranked teams. We had a series of fine quarterbacks, Luckman, Governale, Rossides, Price, Benham, Roberts, Witkowski and complimentary backfield players and linemen and remained competitive. (I was a freshman in the band just yards from Swiacki when he made those impossible catches against Army.)
It started to go down hill when unlimited substitutions were allowed and we had to field two sets of offensive and defensive players.
Even during the 5 or 6 year losing streak we didn’t lose 4 games a year by 40 to 50 points.
I believe the 1958 classmates quoted in the Spectator of November 26 and the former players who have signed the petition have it right.
Let me give you my take on Mangurian. When he was hired and I spoke to him about Shawn Brackett, who was a fine running quarterback, intelligent and a leader, the coach showed a negative reaction. His use of Shawn in 2012 showed his inability to give reign to Shawn’s strengths. His selection of Nottingham shows his preference for a pocket passer.
In the Ivy League you need a good runner who can keep defenses honest and Shawn had that ability.
Your concerns about lighter weight linemen also rings true. Ernest Brad’s view that we have a long standing institutional problem that calls for a blue ribbon committee to study and provide solutions is right on. We have to be competitive in our own league or give it up.
Keep up you good work
Bob Snyder
President, cc ‘51
cc. Ernest Brod cc’58 and Robert Levine cc’58
Allison Macke, Spectator, Senior Staff Writer
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