Not a single game was close. Not a single Saturday was without humiliation.
With so many of the most dedicated fans in the Ivies who are hungrier than all the other schools' fans combined, one might ask: "How can this happen?"
And I'm here to tell you the answer is simple: WE DON'T MATTER.
That's right, the true devoted fans, alumni and even the hard-working players just don't count.
We are nothing.
Who DOES count?
Big donors and powerful administrators who not only fail athletics time and again, but lack the decency to even admit their obvious failures. Just this week, they did it again by authoring a letter for President Bollinger to sign that was the equivalent of peeing on our legs and telling us it was raining.
Who DOES matter?
An athletic director who treats fans and students with disrespect. A woman who refused to even acknowledge the death of a star football alum in a decent manner. An athletic director who hired a coach who was out of work just so she could control him, knowing he owed her so much. This, after contracting a search committee with no sports search experience led by another out of work individual who would not have the standing to object to her corrupt hiring practices.
Who DOES matter?
Members of a "football committee" all with personal agendas that have nothing to do with football, like getting their children admitted to Columbia. And thus they do not object to the obvious futility we all see and suffer with each year. They remain silent, except for occasional wordy, non-sensical outbursts accusing us of being childish for being outraged by our historic futility. And naturally, these attacks against us are posted anonymously on this blog and elsewhere.
Who DOES matter?
A former coach and current Chairman of the Board of Trustees who says he wants change, but has yet to truly demand it or achieve it. Perhaps he will step in and really affect change this time. Or maybe not. Who knows? He matters and we do not.
We may have all the facts on our side. Any other Ivy school with our results would have made massive changes decades ago. But when people who see the truth and know what needs to be done do not matter, then nothing changes.
To those of you who still actually expect Coach Mangurian to be fired before next season, or Dianne Murphy to be replaced anytime soon, let me bring you the truth: it's not going to happen.
We may be the only ones who really care. We may be the ones who have the guts to demand better and say so. We may be the only ones with no other agenda than wanting to see Columbia win.
But no amount of donations, season ticket purchases, reasoned letters and editorials, or even flying banners in the skies over Baker Field will ever matter.
Perhaps the magnitude of Bollinger's letter to the Columbia Spectator is eluding some of you, but it's really crystal clear.
Columbia Athletics will never improve.
Because we don't matter. The players don't matter. The students don't matter. Even the truth does not matter.
Mangurian will be back next year and we will go 0-10 again. We will be told progress is being made and to shut up.
The men's basketball team will not have a winning record, or a winning Ivy record. The women's basketball team will not win even four Ivy games.
We will be told we are improving.
Because we don't matter.
If and when we bring up our concerns once again, we will be patronized, ignored and then insulted again.
Because these people in power never really cared in the first place, or gave up so long ago that they can't believe people like us still care.
They laugh at us. They ridicule us. We are not worth even telling the truth. They've moved on to things that matter to them more than winning, respect, and the scholar-athlete/team ideal.
And they have no time for suckers like us who still care.
Because we don't matter.
146 comments:
Jake don't quit now! Put what you just posted in the NewYork Times and embarrass the hell out of them! It makes me sick.
Wow, so well put -- and so true! What you describe is exactly what has been going on for many, many years. And it is indeed hard to foresee change, simply because there isn't any need to change in the opinion of the decision makers.
After a season like this one -- capped by a Times article about the team about the team as a laughingstock -- is there anything more to be done? When ANY element of the university is held up for ridicule, the reputation of the whole school is damaged. This is especially true for something as high profile as the football team. But let me say it again: you're absolutely right. It doesn't matter to the decision makers, and those to whom it does matter are seen as fools.
Rather than continue like this, it will be better when CU drops football. And I said WHEN, not IF. That's what's coming, and the sooner the better -- because the alternative is more of the same.
The hell with it.
Have faith in Men's Basketball. They have some really good, young talent and will surprise this year. Maybe not .500 in the Ivy but close and they have a very good recruiting class already or next year.
I am beyond embarrassed. I say we support NYU football because they could beat us!
Thank you Nathan's Hot Dog Committee! Once again you all proved USELESS! What happens next year when we go 0-10? One more year? Do us all a favor and quit. We're embarrassed for you! God forbid one of you spineless jellyfish stand up to Bill and Dianne. You know what? Don't bother. Just order more relish for the golf outing. Stick with what you're good at.
Not one red cent! I will not contribute one more cent to this fiasco!
I have gone to Columbia games for 40 plus years but I am done after this season. Why should i care when the people in charge of running the University from the Trustees down think this is acceptable.Moving on to other things effective this evening.
You can't drop football. It's in the Ivy League charter. No football means no Ivy League.
Hope springs eternal. That's why there is always a next season. I won't waver and belly ache the past. Ill just continue to support the team any way I can.
Something needs to be done. This was as bad as 1987. I am not sure we could even beat schools like Williams, Wash U and other Division 3 teams. I just don't know anymore but i it has become too much to go to games and subject my family to this so i also will not be coming anymore. As bad and as sad as the season was, the worst was the reaction from the powers to be they don't seem bothered at all by this,
Bill Campbell-you are a joke!
I implore every alum in the country to discourage student athletes from attending COLUMBIA!
I IMPLORE Everyone to avoid attending any sporting events till Mangurian is fired!
I implore all to hold back any money from Columbia till there is substantive change in the athletic department.
I implore Bill Campbell to go off into the sunset! He chose this disaster.
The CU Rugby team could beat us!!!
Pete, you are one sorry excuse for a coach! Go coach in Canada!
Hello Jake,
Thank you for your efforts to get Mango removed. He is the worst sort of bully and needs to be removed.
I do not think “we” will matter until the vocal “anonymous” publically attribute their opinions and get some skin in the game. I don’t think this will happen. Even the alumni who paid for the banner are too risk adverse to claim credit for counting coup.
I am disappointed, but not surprised, by this extreme risk aversion, as it is a symptom of current culture. A grossly mismanaged football program is a trivial matter, but too often people will not even speak up on matters of grave importance. For example, in 2010, I briefed the Commander of RC-SW that 70% of his KIA were from blue on green violence (Afghan security forces killing US personnel) and that most of our wounded were the results of drug trade violence (we averaged one double amputee a day). MG Toolan’s response was that the green on blue killings were not statistically significant. Additionally, the command refused to acknowledge the opium economy, but mandated that all Marines would wear Kevlar diapers on patrol, so they could still reproduce after they were crippled (the IEDs that were being deployed usually destroyed the genitals along with the legs). Not one officer above the rank of Major lobbied for policy change.
Our trivial quest is similar. The alumni who can effect change are too risk adverse to speak up. Unfortunately, the administration will not listen until the alumni who matter withhold future donations and publically acknowledge the reasons for their actions.
Seriously, what do the influential alumni have to lose? Are you worried about your social standing? I would also like my three daughters, who are all as smart as my wife, gorgeous, athletic, and straight-A students to go to CU someday. But if expressing dissatisfaction prevents them from getting accepted, I would rather they go to Yale (the thought makes my ass sick) or another academically challenging institution.
Thank you again for leading the charge and inspiring alumni to speak up. I sincerely hope more of our fellow fans and former players publically call for change. While I am very proud that so many of my former teammates signed your petition, the other decades are woefully underrepresented. Anonymous: it is time to sack up and get some skin in the game. My eleven year old daughter displays more testicular fortitude.
Who dares wins,
Bob
teacher mike 196
Shame, shame on the CU School of Journalism. Journalism turned out a graduate by the name of Juliet Macur who works for the NY Times Sports Department. This morning, she reported on the last fifty years of CU's football futility with its record of having only three winning seasons. Ms Macur mentions the efforts of President Bollinger, AD Dianne Murphy and Trustee Bill Campbell in trying to turn the long suffering program around. She even interviews a former player, Marcellus Wiley, and a current player, Nick Melka, to get an athlete's view on the football situation.
I can't imagine why she didn't interview the current head coach Pete Mangurian on his efforts to improve the program. Perhaps he was to busy with his X's and O's trying to assure a season ending route of Brown.
And just why wasn't the editor of this award winning blog interviewed. I guess the CU School of Journalism teaches its students to only interview parties who have positive opinions, dissent is unacceptable.
Freedom of the Press - Jake for a Pulitzer.
I have already done my part. I have told parents of 3 prospective football players that CU is recruiting to slam the door, bolt it, and never, ever open it. Not even for a second. I will continue to do so.
Absolutely right about the NYT article. I was waiting for a reference to Jake and the blog, which of course never came. Yes, I am a fool.
In order to achieve what you want you have to be willing to risk everything. Campbell doesn't want to lose, who would donate millions with the intent to lose. Perhaps he delegated too much power, but to be self defeating with intent strikes me as crazy.
Nonetheless, this cannot go on and mangurian and dianne need to be removed.
Des Werthman
Also, the spirit I loved about Columbia was that we fought and continued the good fight. This is the good fight and to be or even act defeated is to be defeated. I don't know all of you on this blog, but I know several and have read about others, Mitch, and I never saw one of you quit on anything. Kent you never quit in your life...so I don't buy we don't matter, but I am a romantic at heart. I don't want a championship season or two I expect them. We should come to expect them.
Des
A plane flew over the game with a message to get rid of Pete and Dianne... I am so proud to be an alum! Thank you!
Pete Mangurian is an outstanding football coach," Dr. M. Dianne Murphy said. "He brings tremendous experience with a plethora of impressive mentors, including Bill Arnsparger, Dan Reeves and Bill Belichick. He has worked in great organizations under Pat Bowlen, owner of the Denver Broncos, and Robert K. Kraft '63CC, owner of the New England Patriots. Pete's experience speaks for itself."
"As soon as I stepped on campus, I was energized. What excited me the most was that every person I spoke to had the same enthusiasm, commitment and passion for the athletics program and the football program in particular," Mangurian said. "We will need collaboration to be successful, and I felt that immediately. This is a tremendous opportunity to give this outstanding university an outstanding football program.
"I must thank President Bollinger, Bill Campbell, Susan Feagin, James Valentini, Don Jackson, Ted Gregory, Kevin Ward, Ray Tellier and Dianne Murphy for this fantastic opportunity," Mangurian concluded.
This is a scary!
This tactic is a mistake. Your cutting off the legs of the remaining players. If we can't change the staff, we can help the most by putting the best players on the field. We can win with the right players, no matter who the coach is.
GP
The Columbia basketball team won tonight ..the coach is superb..the team is young talented....great size ...great guards...great coaching...should have a fine season...go watch Columbia men's team..anyone who thinks otherwise has not seen the team. Coach Smith is a star! No seniors! The team has incredible potential and almmost knocked off the Number 1 team in the country Michigan State.
The NYT article for those who missed it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/sports/ncaafootball/columbia-footballs-dogged-futility.html
Did a plane seriously fly overhead during the game with the message to fire Pete and Murphy?
The banner read :
"THX SENIORS GO LIONS LUV U!! MANG & MURPHY...JUST GO"
The banner read :
"THX SENIORS GO LIONS LUV U!! MANG & MURPHY...JUST GO"
Go look at the Spec page
Great job setting the team back 20 more years with the fly over!
Pete, we know you watching and reading please resign immediately!
Rich '66
"Great job setting the team back...."
What solar system are you from? That is more injurious than the idiots in the athletic department or the coaches on the field? I think you need some counseling in cause and effect, my incognizant friend.
Jake; congrats on one of your best blogs to date. Submit to Spec and NYT. It's classic.
Or maybe we print it on leaflets and blanket the campus next week.
BTW, I handed out about 35 buttons today at the game. People were coming up to me asking for them. It's starting, my friends. Stay strong.
Lee Boll only will listen to $$$ If you want change stop writing checks to the school especially the Athletic Dept. Dont attend any FB functions. When 10 guys show up for the FB golf outing I think they will get the point. Campbell has the power to change anything. Its all on him and his cronies who run the FB advisory committee.
The person who keeps going against the grain and suggests the fly over set the program back...either you are just thick in the head, didn't go to columbia or are from jersey.
The only thing setting the program back 20 years today is pete and dianne.
You lost. In response to your failure, bloggers have said
1) they won't go golfing???
2) you'll leaflet the campus
3) you'll steer good football players to other schools.
The first is an unusual form of militancy; the second will not change the decision-makers' minds and is likely to undermine support for the team; and the third, going forward, is self-destructive and just makes you look petulant.
It's nine and half months until the next game. I ask you: what's the best way to spend those months? Raging against the wind, or calling a one year ceasefire of your campaign against M & M?
average margin of defeat for 1987 team was 20.7 points.
AVERAGE MARGIN OF DEFEAT FOR THIS TEAM WAS 32.9 POINTS.
This coach oversaw a 50% decline from what was thought to be the worst team, no offense to 1987 because there had been years of disarray, in Columbia's history.
PETE MANGURIAN was the coach for this disaster. DIANNE MURPHY was the atheletic director who hired this disaster.
BYE BYE TO BOTH
It's not "petulant" to steer kids away from this hugely disheartening and cynical program. It's trying to serve their best interests. Yes, great moments and wonderful friendships have come from playing football at Columbia. But for almost every single former player here, the losing of CU football was a painful disappointment in an area of life that was tremendously important to them.
Go to Princeton, boys! Go to Harvard! We'll let you know when things change here. Then we'll welcome you with open arms, and you'll leave with wonderful memories of proud Columbia football. I hope that's real soon. I hope it's tomorrow. Until then, go Tigers!
Athletic
In my heart of hearts I thought that common sense would prevail with regard to Pete and the administration. Apparently it is abundantly clear to everyone except the administration that Pete has lost the team. The Seniors had a combative meeting with Pete last week. The Juniors will be in the same position (on the sidelines) next year. So what will change? Seriously, I know for a fact that parents have been calling (and e-mailing) Dianne in record numbers about Pete's (mentally) abusive behavior. This is tantamount to bullying. Isn't that cause for removal? How can all of these factors keep being ignored? I mean we all ask ourselves the same questions. We all know that next year will be more of the same, so why must we (and the team) endure this nightmare again???!!! The fact is that we are looking dead in the eyes of another 0-10 season (maybe one win but Georgetown-our only hope-beat Holy Cross yesterday).
I too (like Pete), would like to thank President Bollinger, Bill Campbell, Susan Feagin, James Valentini, Don Jackson, Ted Gregory, Kevin Ward, the rest of the Nathan's Hot Dog Committee, Ray Tellier and Dianne Murphy for setting the program back years! You all should be ashamed of yourselves! How about thinking about these poor kids and less about your egos!
The problem is US. WE need to stop contributing. WE need to stop going to games. WE need to keep telling Bill and Lee that enough is enough!
Thanks Jake for this forum!
Unfortunately what would need to happen is someone get seriously hurt so that a lawsuit occurs, and the dirty laundry gets out in court. At least we have a good baseball team.
Dear Jake and Rich, please read the comment above that starts with...in my heart of hearts. The seniors have nothing to loose now by "spilling the beans" . Couldn't you 2 make it possible for these kids to finally be heard by the media , be it television or newspapers? Once the ignorance of Bollinger, and how Diane has done nothing about the way these guys have been treated. I'm sure then a change will be made.if there is a chance for More serious injuries, and it is made very public, there will be change. Please again read that post above and answer me. Can you do something?
P.S. not to mention the mental abuse ( bullying) also. Nobody should have to endure that.
We have a silent Rutgers University and MAJOR BULLYING by Pete on our hands and our, yes OUR/MY kids are afraid to step forward. Afraid of Administrative and Financial challenges that could arise. My boy is tired and so aren't his peers.
Can SOMEONE help us open up without potential ramifications.
We just want to be Columbia Lions and LOVE the game we came here to play. Diane and Pete = Deaf ears!!!!
Guys, please! Drop the law suit crap! Drop the expose on personal mistreatment! I fully support AD interviewing seniors and even President if necessary. But this is not about bullying, criminal mischief, or criminal liability. This is about a bad football coach hired by an egotistical AD. It's about the ramifications of disrupting the "earn playing time" mantra that defines college football at any level. It's about our guys vs their guys which divides a team and prevents players from respecting and playing for their coach. It's about holding meetings designed to solicit constructive feedback and then angrily doling out personal attacks when players speak their mind. Low IQ mercenaries who have NFL aspirations and not much else in their lives may respond to this. The Lions players have slot more going on in their lives, and each and everyone is more intelligent, insightful and sophisticated than any coach on this staff. They respond with disbelief and contempt for such clownery. The result is 0 and 10 of epic proportion. The AD can save her job by putting a stop to this this week. That is her job. That is leadership.
Pete will not RESIGN on his own, because of, in my opinon, his large salary and possible benefits, which may include his family attending Columbia at no or extreme large discount.
Would the administration help negotiate his resignation??
The only people who can force change are Campbell and Kraft. Like it or not, Campbell will not move against the M&M twins unless and until his closest football buddies and Bob Kraft tell him that this cannot continue. PS, I disagree with Jake about men's' basketball. Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a chestnut: likewise Murphy finding Kyle Smith.
Old Lion. I agree. Imagine if Pete took this team to East Lansing to play the Spartans. Would it be decided in the 4th qrtr?
I don't know why everyone thinks that Kraft is involved, he's not. Should he be? Yes! When they rejected his candidate for HC, he threw up his hands (like us all).
Who was Kraft's candidate? Kraft loves Columbia. He has to speak up.
Hey Pete...
Do you really think that kissing ass and making nice with the parents this weekend is going to stop them from outing you on the abuse that their sons have suffered at your hands this season?
Tomorrow is Monday.
Sleep well, you maniacal b*****d!
One year from now Pete will have a three year record of 3-27. As I see it, we have two choices, either get rid of him now, or wait and let us suffer. Your call Bill. We've all seen this movie before and the ending is always the same. It's time for change!!!
Think about it Bill, things are so bad that someone flew a plane over Baker Field demanding a change. That's amazing!!!
To the parents/players who don't want to be put in Pete's scope if they say something.
Go to the Spec and ask that you name not be used.
To the seniors, there is a lot to gain from outing the bully. Do you want the juniors to go through this? Pete can do nothing to you at this point. He isn't going to stop alumni from helping you get a job, ur financial aid is going anywhere, he can't mentally abuse you...in fact he would be powerless against you. Same for the parents.
At some point you just have to stand up for what is yours and what is right.
Please folks, stop talking about half-measures.like "don't contribute to football" or "don't go to the golf outing." To make an effective statement, our boycott must be 110 % complete. We on this board and our families are enough to be noticed if we are united and disciplined. NOT ONE PENNY to anything connected in any way to CU. Contribute nothing to all and any funds of any kind, athletic or non-athletic. Attend no dinners, parties, meetings even if they are free. Buy .no Columbia gear of any description. Do not contribute to any club or activity such as the College magazine, nor to any charity sponsored by CU. There and countless worthy charities with no CU connection.
Sorry but nothing to the College Fund. It has plenty of money. Let Campbell and Bollinger donate our share. This boy cott must be absolute. NO financial contribution and equallyaa important IMO participation in anything CU. Equally important: Return every solicitation and invitation with the message "Not until the brass stop destroying Columbia football."
Finally the BEST ACTION of all--
Do NOT attend any football games next season. Our pitiful game "crowds" of 2000-2500 will dwindle to zero if we stay away. THAT will get everyone's attention.
Final thought for the day: just focus on verifiable facts, not on innuendo and rumor. Verifiable facts are irrefutable: the record was unacceptable; every football statistic on both sides of the ball was horrific.
can anybody tell me where Garret was the last half of the season?
And so it ends, the worst season ever. Never in CU gridiron history was so much lost by so few to so many. This is NOT our finest hour.
Rich Forzani
Old Lion is right. Verifiable facts are the only way to go. Emotion is understandable, but we are on the side of the angels here and we don't need to exaggerate or over dramatize.
Unfortunately, there are so many facts on our side that we don't need to use the other stuff. The truth, inexorably presented, will set us free. We just need to continue presenting it.
Jake and Rich - You deserve our thanks and support.
The flyover was great. The Spectator website has a picture.
It is unfortunate that the flyover got little or no attention in the local and national media outlets.
Perhaps people with media connections can try to publicize the flyover and push the overall
story.
The AP story included an informative paragraph that deserves more exposure.
http://collegefootball.ap.org/article/brown-ends-season-48-7-win-over-columbia
The loss ended a winless season for the Lions (0-10, 0-7), their first since they had four in a row from 1984-87. Columbia managed only 73 points this season, its lowest total since 1958. It also gave up 402 points, a school record.
The program needs a comprehensive independent evaluation by outside college sports consultants and it requires a complete overhaul.
More participation in the change
effort is needed from current football seniors and their parents, football alumni,
major contributors, and current and former CU officials.
The program needs major changes now. The current circumstances are untenable and unsustainable.
for once Jake, your right.
YOU DONT MATTER.
seriously, is that the best you can do "YOU DONT MATTER"
Wow, the truth is on its way out and forgetting about how bad a person we have heading the team and athletics, the record speaks for itself. worst team ever fielded, and it is not because there isnt talent since there is. this is all coaching. Just go through the stats, most points, largest average margin of defeat, fewest points, one of the smallest teams in terms of numbers forgetting about weight. the list can go on forver.
For the AD, no improvement in sports since she has come on and given the football results, certainly steps backwards on many fronts.
so you supporters of the coach etc., have two choices
1. clean house and allow sports to get back on the right track
2. keep the current people and watch football go away, and yes that means IVY membership since it is a charter rule, and see most fans go away with it and money...we cannot forget about the money.
good luck with the decision...dont screw it up
Jake , you have done so much in your fight for this team. I have one more suggestion. This may take some work on your part, what about contacting our senior players/ parents privately and not on this blog. They may feel more inclined to speak of went went on this year privately. I'm sure you then could convince them to go public. Please for the rest of the team.
teacher mike 196
One of the segments on an NFL pre game show this morning covered the business/athletic methods used by the New England Patriots in their football operation. It seems that there is a monetary ceiling on what each position player should be paid. Some players who had come off of excellent years were even asked to take pay cuts for the good of the organization. When they wouldn't take the pay cuts, they were traded for #1 draft picks. A few of these players were interviewed for the show. They all said they understood that these were business decisions but still were was the loyalty for all of their years of service.
The message of the Kraft - Belichick regime is that everyone is expendable with the possible exception of Tom Brady,the franchise. So it looks like the Kraft - Belichick school of
profits and Super Bowl Championships over loyal athletes is being practiced by the Bollinger - Campbell - Murphy - Mangurian regime. To hell with the veteran Patriot and Columbia senior football players, feelings do not come into the new corporate culture of the above mentioned technocrats.
Campbell has been half in the bag the entire season. That can only explain his blindness. He is the chairman of the board of trustees if wants PM and MDM gone they would be gone. Boll is his bitch. It's all on him and his band of jerky FB committee members.
Great statement, Jake. Your words are riveting but they all boil down to WE DON'T MATTER.....to Bollinger and his crowd. I.m surprised there isn't more outrage against Bollinger's disgusting letter to Spectator. What a vicious, sneering, condescending insult to alums and also to students, student-athletes, parents, , faculty, staff, friends and anyone who loves this university as family, warts and all, which every family and university has.
Bollinger's letter was obviously insulting and dismissive. It didn't even address the football issues. But after taking another look at it, I realized I underesrimated the depth of his dismissive and mocking attitude.
This supposedly is the president of our U, plus a great thinker and legal scholar, etc. You wonder how he could put his signature to this nonsense.
And then I realized he didn't even write it, or most of it. He didn't care enough to address our concerns, nor did he have the civility to pretend to care.
This is one of Murphy"s silly concoctions about how well squash and archery are doing. Note the "historic season opening of women's swimming with three straight wins." Anyone believe LB knew that? He simply put his signature underneath a pottage of DM lies, so little respect does he have for us or concern over Columbia's humiliation.
Bollinger clearly told us to screw ourselves but didn't have the guts to use those words.
LB's insult is the same as what the AD troll on this board wrote above directed at you personally, Jake--"You don't matter." But of douse they mean all of us. We have to show them we do.
Bollinger is making more than $2 million a year and was given an extension a while back that takes him through 2016....plenty of time to destroy football. He's not an alum nor a friend, and he's been in charge for a dozen years....much too long.
Great attitude. We didn't get our way, so let's do everything we can to hurt the program. All we care about is the kids, right? BS. You guys want to burn the village down to save it.
PM will turn things around or he will be gone next year. Let's not try to make things worse for kids next year by trying to poison the well further.
PM turn things around. Are u a moron. You are obviously a parent of an underclass men. Not an Alum not an Athlete. Have you been blind to the things going on? PM may be, no, is the worst coach in all of college football. His career as a head coach is over. He will destroy what ever love for the game any of these kids have.
Apparently you can't read: turn things around OR he will be gone next year. I am not predicting a turn around, only that he will be the coach for one more year regardless of what we want. Time to stand down. It is now pointless to further escalate efforts to undermine the coach. You will end up hurting the kids.
Above poster ... He has had 2 years to turn things around and it's gotten worse. Please tell me how his third year is going to be different, I really want to know
Again, you willfully miss the point. He going to get another year whether we like it or not.
....and it's our sons getting the brunt of this!
It is way too early to suggest he is getting another year. The game was yesterday and I highly doubt that any of the powers that be are meeting on a Sunday. Also, I don't think, given the nature of the selection and political hoops, that this potential firing squad kills just one person. This is a package sacking, if it happens.
The best thing that can happen for thos returning players, specifically the juniors, is to stand up for yourself and say what is on your mind. To the seniors, you can help also by speaking out whether it be directly or anonymously to the AD or Spectator or the blog.
The coaches cannot bully you and nobody said you need the sports departments approval to talk to anybody. If there is something you want to say to help those that remain behind say it sooner rather than later.
Norries was sacked on Sunday morning. Just sayin.
Wilson was fired on the Sunday after the last game of 2011. You have avery small window of tim to fire, search and hire a new coach. Recruiting season is now. If he isn't gone tomorrow, he isn't going. Bollinger's letter probably sealed the deal.
How many people has he run off or quit because of Coach M.? annamaker, Gross, who else? And who will quit? I don't blame these kids at all when the administration endorses this tryant!
I could believe it will take a couple of days to close out Mangurian. Unlike Norries he is still mid-contract. Norries they simply didn't have to renew, so they could announce the next morning. With Mangurian there has to be a financial conversation. Also they will want to make it look like a mutual decision if possible to minimize the breach of Ivy League tradition of not firing coaches mid-contract. Finally either the University or donors have to cover the exit costs and that takes time to sort out. So give them a few days or even a week.
I don't understand the maligning of Bill Campbell who has stood through the program through thick and thin and has invested serious money. He is a results oriented guy who know how to make hard decisions. I imagine he wants Mangurian gone and the sooner the better.
In any case, I agree keeping Mangurian around for another year is intolerable. I will not support Columbia athletics if they make the grievous error of keeping him.
Leonidas
The rising seniors should not quit. Then mango wins. He has his smaller team numbers with his guys. What they must do is physically punish and beat out their younger class competition at their position so thoroughly, brutally and convincingly that when mango doesn't invite them to camp, puts them on the shelf, or never let's them run with the ones or twos that those decisions become even more ludicrous, self serving and divisive than they were this year. It is their best option.
Jake: I'm with you on a lot of what you write, but as a parent of a player on this team, please ACT LIKE YOU TRUELY CARE about this team and STOP WITH YOUR GUARANTEE OF A WINLESS SEASON NEXT YEAR. My son has fought his ass off for 3 years for this program and will be doing everything he can to win next year (just as he has done for the 1st 3). It's hard enough to keep your head in the game, so please lay off that piece.
I can't speak for Jake, but I think he is referring to the coaching when he said next year will be winless. If you don't want the team to go winless, step up and say why the coach should be fired if you think he is the wrong fit.
If not then expect to go winless regardless of how hard the kids work since this coach is just god aweful. He could have the best team in the world and a winless season would carry a high probability. He is akin to a hooker not being able to make money in a brothel. He could be up by 20 and that lead wouldn't be safe with his decision making.
Again, none of this is the kids who I wish the best for, but fear the worst for. The Juniors are going to struggle to do anything under this coach....see the seniors from this year as an example.
Here is the call that anybody Dianne Murphy tries to hire first makes: hey Norries, Columbia is trying to get me to take the HC job. What is it like to work for Dianne Murphy? And here is the answer: during my first season after the Penn game she cut my legs out from under me and forced me to apologize for standing up for my players. The bottom line is that nobody and I mean nobody who is any good is going to want to report to Dianne Murphy. So say what you will about the clearly justified termination of Mangurian, but how do we hire anybody who is really good as long as she is the AD? If you were a fight fan, you will remember the"Bum of the Month" club of patsies that Joe Louis fought in his prime. That's the general idea, that we will find some warm body but any football coach worth his salt will not take the job so long as she is the AD.
I think you guys just get carried away with your own opinions. Next year Nottingham will be back. All these young guys who got thrown into the deep end of the pool will be back stronger, bigger, and with game experience. I am pretty sure the skinny guy era is over. The guys will be allowed to bulk up. Chances are the team will be much improved regardless. Their will be far fewer disgruntled upperclassmen as well. They just might surprise. If Nottingham hadn't got hurt, they probably would have won a couple this year. Hey guys, how about reacting to these comments with logic not vitriol for a change. Vitriol is the weapon of dopes.
they wouldnt have won anything. Nottingham will transfer because, if he even comes back, he wont want to be behind that line. the receivers didnt improve the whole year so i dont have much hope for that whole scenario. But hey, keep dreaming like a Cubs fan. oh but wait, the Cubs used to sell out and now they dont because people want a winner and no longer will pay the price for a loser.
Hope is the enemy of success. Hope that we would have been better. Hope that we will be better next year.
His mistreatment of players, his mental abuse, his ability to guilt injured players into playing more and hurting themselves more, his inability to relate and understand the challenges a student athlete face. Well then, let's hope it all gets better next year.
There is nothing wrong with the O Line that hitting the weight room and letting them eat won't cure. They all can add thirty pounds easy. Those guys are athletic . They were just too light. That is something easily fixed.
did you look at their technique? uhm, weight isnt going to solve the problem. why do you think most of our qb's got injured, just because they were small? how about poor technique? if they are fast they can still block. this is a coaching problem. they arent athletic. they either leaned forward in their stance to where their weight distribution was off or they were sitting back in their stance wit the same distribution problem. go look at the film
Pace needs to red shirt!
He needs a red shirt so we know where our weakness is.
Most "inside" info is coming from disgruntled non-players and parents.
W/L record is indisputable, but stories of severe mental abuse has been mostly BS by cry babies that can't take
forceful coaching.
Well said.
I beg to differ. This isn't forceful coaching when the coach wants to control all information flow from the players to the outside world, or how about threatening players and benching them...is that forceful?
Whomever you are, you are a non-player and given you know so much why not tell us the virtues of forceful coaching? The man is egotistical and lacks decency among a total lack of coaching talent. Also, if they can't take forceful coaching I am going to go out on a limb and say they whole team can't handle "forceful" coaching since they performed so well for him.
Go to the little league blog and tell your opinion there.
You whiners describe every football coach both myself and my sons ever played for. My way or the highway is the culture of football coaching.
Yes, coaches want things done their way, but the method to get the players to do that varies by coach. I think it is safe to say that the current methodology does not seem to be working for this team. I, personally, don't think this coach knows what he is doing. Just my opinion.
Des Werthman
Can someone please tell me what bullying Mangurian has done?
Someone said we'd probably have won a couple of games if Nottingham had not got hurt in the opener. From the looks of that game, it's more likely Nottingham wouldn't have gotten killed if he had kept playing.
Sorry...should read "WOULD have gotten killed."
Please post a photo of the flyover!
Tell your son to get with the program or leave it. Get some videos of the most successful coaches and see if your "baby" could take their critizising.
Hey anonymous critics:
Tough coaches inspire their players and make them perform better.
Tough coaches earn respect, they don’t demand respect.
Tough coaches don’t blame the players for losses.
Tough coaches adapt.
Tough coaches don’t bench All-League players to get unproven freshmen game experience.
Tough coaches field competitive teams.
Tough coaches don’t field paper-doll offensive lines.
Stop making excuses for Mango. Losers whine about doing their best, winners go home and f**k the prom queen.
Football search committee needs to be changed asap. They are 0fer forever with their HC choices. Granted DM stuffed this turkey down their throats but as mentioned too many times, any vetting done through any Cornell person would have avoided this terrible choice. Hell, a family relative was an AD in Tx at a prestigous football HS and said PM came to visit him early 90's on a recruit's behalf and he knew he was a joker w/in 10 minutes-recommended the kid choose another Ivy which he ultimately did. This guy is a cheap snake oil salesman at best. Lets get a consultant in to look at the process, revamp the football committee and AD and start anew. This book is old and tattered and quite frankly we are tired of rereading it every season.even the other Ivies feel bad for us as we are embarrassing the brand--that's a fact!!
"Losers whine about doing their best, winners go home and f**k the prom queen." So great! Put that up in the locker room!
Also: "Tell your son to get with the program or leave it. Get some videos of the most successful coaches and see if your "baby" could take their critizising."
First, use spell check. You're an embarrassment to Columbia!
Second, you hit the nail on the head about leaving this program. Yes! In fact, the whole team should leave until substantial and positive change is made.
Third, what videos are you talking about? Did you see the one of the fat coach from Kansas who reamed out his player for showboating? Personally, I liked that coach and I also think he was in the right -- but they did fire him.
Anyway, I can tell you're a tough guy even if (or because) you can't spell. Good luck with the prom queen!
If you don't sign your statements than your a joker and not believable. Stand up and be recognized or shut up and keep your opinions to yourself. All of you anonymous jokers! D.D. Hunt
Did Mangurian speak to the team yesterday? If so, what did he say?
Hopefully good bye and good luck!!
Beg to differ. You're showing your
lack of sport knowledge. Try looking at the "Bobby Knight" school of coaching to see if your baby could handle his methods.
Mango spoke to the Spectator about his “blueprint”. Tough coaches aren’t delusional:
“It’s not the same. It may feel the same, but it’s not,” Mangurian said. “There’s a plan in place that’s based on empirical data, and a lot of knowledge and observation, and a great team of people that’s a lot larger than anybody realizes working to make this program and these kids successful.”
Playing football for Columbia from 1976-1980 was an honor and a great privilege. The President of the University did not attend one game- not one in my 4 years! The "century club" (Donor list) did not have 100 members.
God Bless President Bollinger and Diane Murphy.
Thank God for Coach Campbell!
Roar Lion Roar
Brian O'Hagan'80
Mitch,
I hope that it makes you feel better to make fun of a spelling mistake. We all are not Columbia grads. That comment and the "all should quit" shows your true colors Columbia grad or not.
GP
Beg to differ. PLEASE provide actual threat wording from any coach to your son or any other player.
Mitch,
Here you go again, commenting on 3 different statements from 3 separate people like they were from one person. Maybe you should just read the comments and not try to show us how smart ? you are.
Bob,
You're a classy guy!
Gallows humor has its value. I get a much-needed laugh from the one or two trolls who say stop criticizing the program, that will only make it worse.
What's worse than 0-10? Does that mean we'll lose every game by 60 points next year instead of 40?
Does it mean we'll be 0-11 because the deadbeat Prez will finally allow one more game so we won't be
playing our first game against teams that have played three or four?
No, it just means we're in for the same old crap we've ben fed every year since 1956 after Lou Little retired and the "official" Ivy League began. Here's where the laughs stop/
Jake,
"We have met the enemy--and he is us"
GP
“Unfortunately, we have to spend some of our energy dealing with people that don’t know what we’re doing and are hell-bent on destroying what we’re trying to create,” he said. “The people that aren’t around this program daily, that don’t know our kids personally, don’t know the problems, don’t know the things that have happened before, really don’t know the facts at all, are the ones with the loudest opinions.”
this was from Mangurian to the Spectator.
OK, name one football player that has gone through Columbia that does not know the problems, does not know what has happened before? You cannot. Mangurian does not know what has happened before because he is repeating it right now.
What exactly is he trying to create? Wait, the worst team ever. Hold on, he has already done that so there really is nothing left for him to do here now except leave.
It was really rich bringing in a person's 11 year old daughter. How are we to take you seriously after that remark?
Feeling bad for the players-really, how bad did he feel when he put seniors in the stands at home games? Why was garret not playing? it certainly was not the one game suspension and he was not injured.
The facts are the facts and they point to a new AD and coach. Thye also point to a total overhaul via an outside party. Read the op/ed in the Spectator today.
Also, where is all this empirical evidence and countless people. Another smoke screen from the terrible coach. He has no empirical evidence nor a 4 year plan. We showed no improvement in year 2; a period that he said should show the most improvement.
to all the posters defending mangurian and murphy...perhaps you should all stand around and hold hands...actually i think you are doing that already in Dodge praying that your jobs will still be there when the dust settles.
I'm in general staying out of the debate from now on (even as I'm awaiting the inevitable "Greg Toal is still the coaching answer" from his one or two-member claque here). But I remain curious as to what the many (?) posting here suggest we do about recruiting new players. I certainly found the poster who seemingly bragged that he's personally advising three potential recruits not to even consider our alma mater. Really, that kind of rancor is inexcusable from anyone who claims to truly care about Columbia football.
And I'm also very much bugged by your ragging on Columbia's men's and women's basketball programs in your original post, Jake. That and your dismal projections for this season for the men's and women's teams were very much uncalled for, and if they weren't simply a result of unfocused anger (sort of the "Alec Baldwin exemption" always offered up by his fans whenever he lets loose with anti-gay epithets), then you really should be heartily ashamed of yourself.
WE ARE RUTGERS...
When you constantly and publicly humiliate and degrade players in front of their teammates by telling them they're worthless, no good, and don't deserve to be on the team, then you get what we witnessed this season. When you make derogatory quotes to the Columbia Spectator publicly questioning the players character, mental toughness and work ethic in black and white for fellow athletes, students, fans, alumni and possible future employers to read, then you get what we have witnessed this season. A self fulfilling prophecy of the seniors, juniors and other players bullied at the hands of Pete Mangurian and his staff. Thus we went 0-10.
Yes, I agree, football is a tough sport but there is a difference between tough coaching and bullying. Taking pride in deliberately diminishing a person's self-worth on a daily basis is not coaching. Pete Mangurian does not have a clue as to who his players are or how to treat them humanely. He is a horrible coach!
It is appalling to know that the administration at one of the most politically correct universities in the world would not take action and investigate these allegations of bullying or call into question Pete Mangurian's public statements and behaviors towards the players, parents and even some fans. Anyone else here witness PM charging off the field after a parent and verbally assaulting him after the Penn game last year? PM's female personal assistant or PR person - I don't know her title - had to stop his tirade and pull him away from the situation - not once but twice. What about his lashing out at the elderly fan at the Harvard game? Can you not see that he is a huge liability to the University? You cannot ignore the facts.
This was exposed last week (see links below) and WE ARE RUTGERS...
http://video.foxnews.com/v/2847684811001/rutgers-university-football-player-bullied-by-coach/
http://espn.go.com/new-york/college-football/story/_/id/9983701/jevon-tyree-rutgers-scarlet-knights-says-
On recruiting. I have never made any negative suggestions to my high school coach about Columbia, but that is because the coach played for Pete and would not send a kid his way.
it is too bad, but hard to change that mindset of first hand experience
How long would Bollinger put up with this at Michigan, Campbell- at Intuit?
Thanks,
Jim Mooney CC '56
I'll make a deal with everyone about basketball: First, let's all agree we WANT both teams to win all the time. Second, I'll lay off predicting failure for the teams as long as everyone else lays off bestowing accolades on them BEFORE they actually win. Until we win some Ivy games, let's not say Coach Smith is a success, etc.
Whether he is a father of an eleven year old or not that has no bearing on the phrase he used.
The joke was in poor taste, very poor taste. If he were the father of an eleven year old boy, would you have made the joke? why not, an eleven year old boy could be prom queen as well. You would not because it wouldnt fit so neatly into such a mean thing to say.
they would not put up with this
If things are so bad, let's see who and how many players quit/transfer between now and New Year. Will bet not many starters. The rest will be the winners in life no matter the W/L record of the football team.
GP
Hear, hear
Not sure what point you're trying to make. His comment about winners f--king the prom queen (boy or girl) was crass and uncalled for. I mearly pointed out that the prom queen has a father also.
That was not a joke.
his was a figure of speech, yours was just wrong
the probability of kids transferring between now and New Years is small given application time, choosing a school, making the decision, etc. you wont know until the start of next year. it seems to me the incoming recrutiing class talent level would be most affected by such a terrible record.
Please rethink your opposition to my comment. As the father of a prom queen I take offense at this "figure of speech"
give it a rest. i doubt you are a father given almost every father i know would not use that as a retort.
I remember when this blog was about football analysis and school pride win or lose. Not the politics of school administration, coaches etc. The blog used to be fun to read and full of game insight by Jake and others. I hope it can get back to that. Jake, can you give us your opinion on whom may start next year and their pros and cons? Maybe some insight on improvements that can be made by these student athletes in the off season? More athlete centered commentary and less adult centered stuff.
maybe we can get joe weider in to help the oline put on some weight?
Take your own advice.
It's plain to see you are an opinionated snob who does not have a clue to what a prom queen's father goes through.
I agree whole heartedly.
Enough over reaction to nutral
comments, by overly aggressive posters reacting to inane statements by people that have only confrontational
motives.
I too am a father of a prom queen. Your assumptions are incorrect. The poster of that remark deserves every arrow sent his way. Why do you defend that type of statement ? How many prom queen dads do you know?
If any. Pass that gem of a figure of speech to them and let us know their reaction.
Jake,
Are you serious about posting your thoughts about next years team already?
No threats available yet? That leaves control info to outside world as your #1 complaint. Pretty weak. Lady, please let your son play football and you please keep out of the locker room. Is he ready to quit or transfer because he is surrounded by poor players and poor coaches? If so, please incourage him to do so.
There will be a slew of new freshmen playing next year. Pete's priorities include making as grand a statement as possible about himself as the sole decision maker. the team will go 0-10 again and regardless if Pete is terminated, the program is set back another 3-4 years from where it already was when Norries was let go.
All of you prognosticators, please let me know where I can get a crystal ball like the ones you are using.
Hope I spelled everythink correctly.
I don't want the Spelling Vigilante getting upset.
Actually you didn't spell everything correctly, jag off troll. Pathetic.
Mitch,
Sorry I don't have your toys.
Just a poor plumber trying to put his kid through Columbia. I charge an extra $50.00 per hour to people with your attitude. I hope my kid does not come out with your elitist attitude.
I will bet that you live with your parents and can't hold a job.
Mitch,
Glad to see you own up to being the spelling vigilante.
Jake must be very happy to have your oversight.
I repeat what I said the other day (and I’m glad to see a few others of you in agreement):
*As much as is possible, I want to hear from EVERY young man who played – FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME– on this year’s football team, and/or last year’s team. (parents too, and managers, and anyone else close to the scene)
We will be able to move forward with much more assuredness if we include substantive input from the players as part of the decision-making process. Not only do these young men have the most to gain or lose via a good or bad coach, but they know better than anybody how they feel about their coach professionally - and as a person. (BOTH of which are important!)
I think we need to give the players, and other respondees, the choice of anonymity; because I have heard that they are afraid of repercussions if they speak out. While I personally don’t think it would hurt them re graduating and getting jobs – in fact I think it might actually help - I can see where their admittance to grad schools (especially Columbia schools) might be compromised by their taking a stand.
But really it doesn’t matter what I think – it has to be their choice. Whoever feels that speaking out might be harmful later on must have the right to stay anonymous.
WE NEED THEIR TRUTH, not necessarily their names.
Here’s what seems to me to be a good plan:
A. Have players choose a person whom they trust (to protect their identities) to collect all their assessments and compile them into one document.
B. Ask players (parents, etc.) to respond to these three questions:
1- Do you think the head coach should be retained or let go, and why?
2- Do you have anything you want to say about any of the assistant coaches?
3- Any other thoughts, ideas, stories?
C. (Individuals who so choose should surely identify themselves.)
D. The designated ‘receiver’ will compile all the assessments into one document and forward same to all the appropriate people. (Jake and those of you who are closer to the situation than I am will have a better idea of who ‘all the appropriate people’ are.)
E. A parent whom I heard from yesterday had what I think is a good idea; i.e. keep this document ‘under the radar’ initially. If the comments are generally supportive of the coach then maybe he should be retained – but if the comments are strongly suggesting his removal then give ‘the powers that be’ the opportunity to act accordingly and keep this an ‘in house’ issue.
F. If the comments suggest removal, and ‘the powers’ do not respond appropriately, then go public!
Roger Dennis CC’66
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