Monday, December 3, 2012

Snubbed Quakers and Lions



The last Lion Bushnell winner



I think Colton Chapple was a great QB and he's probably a fine young man.

But it's just not right that he won the Bushnell Cup today as the Ivy League's offensive most valuable player.

Was he  the most productive player? In many ways, he was. His stats were just incredible. 

But MVP awards shouldn't be about stats. They should be about who does the most to secure victories for his team in tough situations. Chapple loaded up and padded his stats in a lot of games, but in the crucial game against Penn, he was just 17-27 for 174 yards, 1 TD and 2 INT's. 

Once again, I have to insist that Penn's Billy Ragone was the toughest offensive player to stop when the games really counted. And no one did stop him. 

Ragone is likely to come back for a 5th year, (he was injured for the season early in his freshman campaign), and now he'll be even more motivated to play great football in 2013. 

Great, now he's angry.

Meanwhile, it is now 30 years and counting since a Columbia player won the Bushnell. For a program that has had so much trouble winning, but not as much trouble finding outstanding individual players, this is supremely frustrating. 

But while not winning championships won't hurt 8-2 teams like Harvard and its star Chapple, it did hurt the Lions in 1996 when the very deserving Marcellus Wiley, (also on an 8-2 team that year), was snubbed. 

Silence is Deafening

The paucity of news about Columbia's 2013 recruiting class is getting a little unsettling. 

We always thought Norries Wilson kept recruiting news close to the vest. So either Pete Mangurian is even more secretive, or he's going a little slower in the process than the other coaches.

I think he's probably further along than we know, but Mangurian is probably recruiting a few names that aren't on the regular Ivy League radar and thus we're a bit in the dark. 

I suspect that will change very soon, but if we don't have 3-4 names out there by Christmas... then something's up.


Yes, We REALLY DID Win the 1934 Rose Bowl

A very long-time fan forwarded this story to me about a woman who long disbelieved here father whenever he talked about Columbia once winning the Rose Bowl.

I get this a lot too, and I'm under 45.

20 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thanks for voicing concerns about 2013 recruiting. Is there trouble in paradise?

Anonymous said...

Why should we assume/fear that there's "trouble in paradise" just because we don't have information? Doesn't make sense. Can we please shed the complexes we've acquired over the last x number of decades?
-Dr.V

Anonymous said...

Fuly agree with Dr. V. We learned of nearly all of the recruits last year thru the media starting around the holidays, at times when Norries and company were long gone. That is hardly likely to change. There is a new sheriff i town, who is not (as some people think) Jim Garrett reincarnated (who shot himself in the foot publicly as welcome a breath of fresh air as he was), and is entitled to try things his way. They seem to be working, even if some of us don't like all of those things.

Anonymous said...

Last year the official visits for us were weekends in early December. When are the visits scheduled this year?

oldlion said...

Shoop was always regaling us with his huge recruiting successes. I would rather that no information be made forthcoming. Loose lips sink ships. All we need is for a bottom feeder like Reno to get wind of our recruits. As far as I am concerned, I don't want any names out there until May, when the class is signed, sealed and delivered. One final thought: how can it possibly help our program if our recruiting efforts are publicized either here or on Voyforums? Let the world wonder, so long as Pete etc. are out there on the trail. Right now I am more interested in whether any of our seniors are going to take a fifth year.

Anonymous said...

column:
http://www.columbiaspectator.com/2012/12/03/guest-column-inside-look-football-team-shows-progress-mangurian

Anonymous said...

Wiley lost out to Chad Levitt. Hardly an injustice. Wiley would have gotten the Defensive POY if it was offered at the time.

Anonymous said...

"But MVP awards shouldn't be about stats. They should be about who des the most to secure victories for his team in tough situations." So you're saying that Witkowski should give his Bushnell back? :)

CULionPride said...

Last weekend was the first session of recruits on campus. If Columbia is recruiting players that others are not, then why publicize that and let others know? In Ivy recruiting, there are few if any secrets since there is a small list of eligible players (compared to other divisions and leagues). I am certain the coaches have prioritized recruits by position based upon their needs for next year's class.

RedTiger61 said...

Thanx for the post by Anonymous above with the Columbia Spectator link .... it was an interesting article .... though a lot of posts on this blog sound desparate (and it's tough not being desparate with our past history), the article reenforces my belief that Mangurian has a clear plan (and timetable) for moving us forward ... even if we win a few more games than we did this year, the "skeptics" and "half-empty glass" alums will not go away ... hell, I'll probably be one of them ... but the same was probably true at Penn when Harry Gamble showed up in 1980 ... it took him 3 yrs to have a winning record ... since he left in 1985, Penn has been THE power in the Ivy League ... if Mangurian were "warm and fuzzy" maybe he'd get less griping from all of us ... we are anxious and impatient, but if we are ever going to build a program that can compete with the Penn's and Harvard's of the Ivy League we WILL have to be more patient ... Mangurian showed he has the ability to recruit good players .. I think he will do it again this year ... I believe the O-line will be better (and bigger) next year ... I believe we have already improved the program ... it needs to improve for several years in a row before we will see a change in the skeptics" and "half-empty glass" alums ... what I want for Christmas is a successful December of recruiting for Mangurian ... and if I have to wait to find out who committed, I'll wait (as patiently as I can) ... we don't have much choice, so relax and enjoy the Holiday's !!!

RedTiger61 said...

... on to another issue ... what will it take for us to have another night game at Columbia ... the Penn-Columbia game was electric and a night game should become a fixture on our schedule every year ...

Anonymous said...

If the Ivy League or any other conference wants to give its MVP trophy to "the most outstanding player on the champion team," it can easily do so. Our conference, and every other conference for that matter, has chosen not to limit the MVP to players on the champion team. Given that state of affairs, Chapple and Catapano are deserving.

Now, if you want to make the different claim that Chapple was surrounded by so much talent that Ragone or Mathews or other quarterbacks could have produced similarly gaudy numbers, that's a very different argument where you might get more traction.

LionEsq said...

On recruiting, I don't think schools are allowed to discuss potential students officially until after their forms and deposits are in. All of the information on recruits in the past has come from the recruits themselves, their high schools or recruiting services like Rivals. So, I doubt the issue is that CU is playing its cards tight to the vest, unless they asked their recruits to keep things confidential -- hard to do with excited high schoolers. Also, I recall Wilson (and prior coaches) complaining about Penn poaching Columbia recruits in the spring when it lost recruits it had expected. So quiet is good.

DOC said...

RedTiger 61 your sentiments about night football are spot on!
Wasn't the problem due to real or perceived community opposition?

RedTiger61 said...

Yes ... the arguement has always been that the community opposed it .... that's why the Admin needs to start now to get agreement for an annual night game (or two) ....

Jake said...

The community doesn't oppose it. The local shakedown artists see it as a chance to grab Colimbia's money.

WOF said...

Red Tiger, I think you are referring to Jerry Berndt at Penn? Gamble's record was not so good...

RedTiger61 said...

WOF ...Gamble went 1-9 (1980), 1-9 (1981), THEN 7-3,6-3-1,8-1 before Jerry Berdt came to Penn in 1985 ... I'd take years 3 thru 5 at Columbia

RedTiger61 said...

WOF .... my mistake ... I read the Ivy League records incorrectly ... you are right, Berndt is the one who started to turn things around at Penn

WOF said...

good call RedTiger