Tuesday, October 29, 2013

How We Got Here





Many of the oldest fans of Columbia football and the most loyal readers of my Columbia blogs are asking the same question: How did we get back to rock bottom so fast?

The best answer is that not much of this should be a surprise. In fact, several serious red flags have been springing up for the nearly 23 months since Head Coach Pete Mangurian was hired. I documented them all pretty much as they happened. 

But I list them again below.




Red Flag #1:

-After saying she conducted a nationwide coaching search, Athletic Director Dianne Murphy announces that she’s made the decision  to hire Pete Mangurian on Dec. 8, 2011, a mere 19 days after firing Norries Wilson and a full week before her own publicly stated deadline to make a hiring decision. Alumni and fan favorite Tom Gilmore of Holy Cross is not interviewed, and neither is Greg Toal, standout coach of the Don Bosco high school powerhouse team.

Perhaps more disturbing, it’s learned that Mangurian and Murphy knew each other in the years when their tenures overlapped at Cornell. This raises questions about whether Murphy had just hired an old acquaintance as opposed to really entertaining a wider range of candidates.


Red Flag #2:

Less than three months after getting the job, Columbia offensive coordinator Ben McDaniels leaves to taking a coaching job with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Jaime Elizondo is hired as the new OC.
                                                                                                                                                              

Red Flag #3:

As Columbia opens spring practice, the Lions sole returning All Ivy offensive lineman – Scott Ward – is benched. Ward’s status is not changed as summer training camp begins and he is not used much as a starter through 2012. Why Mangurian makes this decision is never discussed or explained.


Red Flag #4:

As the Lion players prepare for summer training camp, Mangurian informs almost all of them that they will need to lose weight… even the offensive linemen. The result is an extremely lightweight team where Columbia ends up being an average of 30-40 pounds lighter than their opponents across the line of scrimmage. Mangurian never addresses questions about why he’s doing this until well after the 2012 season, where he insists he didn’t deliberately want a lighter team.


Red Flag #5:

Returning star QB Sean Brackett is told to stay in the pocket or else face extra discipline from the coaching staff. Brackett still runs occasionally, but the result of the pocket passing dictate from Mangurian is a massive amount of sacks and a physically severe weekly beating for Brackett. With defenses less worried about covering Brackett as a runner, he faces tougher pass coverage and barely completes more than 50% of his passes.  


Red Flag #6:

After playing competitively in the first two games of 2012 and achieving a 1-1 record, Columbia looks completely unprepared in a 33-6 runaway loss at home to Princeton.


Red Flag #7:

After blowing a 20-10 4th quarter lead against Penn at Franklin Field, Mangurian verbally assaults the parent of a player waiting outside the team locker room.


Red Flag #8:

After a heartbreaking 21-16 loss to Dartmouth at Homecoming, Mangurian appears unhinged at the postgame press conference. At one point he tells a reporter that he could answer his questions, but he and the others in the press room wouldn’t be able to understand his answers. Those in room agree that Mangurian is clearly not all there, at least at that moment. Mangurian is never disciplined for this extreme embarrassment of the entire program in front of the news media.


Red Flag #9:

Columbia loses to Harvard 69-0, the worst loss in Ivy League football history. As the game cascades more and more out of control an aggressive passing game plan is not changed thus allowing Harvard to continue to run up the score.


Red Flag #10:

In the moments immediately following the season-ending loss at Brown, Mangurian gets into a nasty on-the-field public shouting match with Brown Head Coach Phil Estes. Later, it’s learned that the dispute was over Estes not allowing Columbia to film the game at field level. Mangurian is never disciplined for this.


Red Flag #11:

At the conclusion of spring practice, rising junior DL Chad Washington is arrested for assaulting another student. The arrest is later reduced to a disturbance as evidence becomes clear that there was no “victim” in the incident. But the altercation gives the Columbia Spectator an opportunity to dig into the social media/Twitter accounts of several players where a number of apparently racist and homophobic statements. While Mangurian and Murphy make a well-timed and very appropriate statement denouncing the behavior, the image of Columbia football as being a disciplined and mature program under Mangurian is shattered.


Red Flag #12

Super-talented WR Isaiah Gross, who made a splash in the first two games of 2012, leaves training camp and returns home. 

Red Flag #13:

In the 2013 season opener against a much faster, stronger and bigger Fordham team, Mangurian and Elizondo continue to put Stanford transfer QB Brett Nottingham in danger well after the game is far out of reach for the Lions. As a result, Nottingham breaks his wrist while running away from yet another pass rush and is lost for the season.  


Red Flag #14:

Despite continued poor pass protection and strong success in the running game, Columbia continues to primarily pass the ball out of the pocket in an eventual 37-14 loss to Monmouth in week two.


Red Flag #15:

Columbia is humiliated again in a 53-7 loss to Princeton.


Red Flag #16:

In a surprisingly close game against nationally ranked Lehigh, Mangurian makes the terrible decision to throw with just seconds left in the third quarter and Columbia down just 17-10. The resulting incomplete pass stops the clock and forces Columbia to punt into a stiff wind. The result is a short field for Lehigh and a game-icing TD.


Red Flag #17:


Columbia suffers the third worst loss in Ivy history, falling 56-0 to Dartmouth in Hanover. 

100 comments:

oldlion said...

Sounds like Emile Zola as in J'accuse Dr. M. "Now in her ninth full year..." Dianne Murphy.

Anonymous said...

Hire Greg Gonzalez!

Anonymous said...

ELOQUENT!

Gilmore is under contract, go for it all with one of the best coaches in the nation at any level GREG TOAL!

There will be no excuses, no references to the "culture". There definitely will be a competitive, disciplined and tough Columbia team.

This is obvious to everyone who knows football except Bollinger and Campbell.

CULionPride said...

My son was recruited under Norries Wilson and then became a player under Coach Mangurian. When I was growing up I can remember the approximate time when Columbia broke its losing streak. It seems that all of this precedes Dr. Murphy (I am not stating that she is performing well), but there needs to be a full review of what is causing this losing over such a long period of time. Is it the facilities being distant? Is it the administration? Is it that Columbia is in NYC? I don't profess to have any answers, but this is more than a recent phenomenon. I wish the players all the best. Hopefully someone like Evan Miller will appear as he did against Brown and this team wins at least one game. My son will graduate with an outstanding education and already has accepted a great offer, but I doubt that he will attempt to remember the football games. He will however always remember those he played with and the life-long friends he has made at Columbia. For the future, incluidng the remainder of this season, I wish the best to the Lions.

Anonymous said...

CULionPride, my son was also recruited by NW. He suits up every week ready to play hard. I'm sure it's got to be killing these kids to loose like this. Yet he never has a negative word to say about coaches and players.he also has made life-long friendships and these guys truly have a bond. I hope for future teams, a light bulb goes on and they can pin-point the problem. Until then , I support this team and wish them a win each week. Roar Lions Roar!

Anonymous said...

Jake,
Is it possible to hire a part time consultant to evaluate the football program? There must be plenty of football people in NYC area that could do the job. An out for the administration and a no lose situation for the team. No way PM could nix the
help or ignore any recommendations
after this disaster of a season.

GP

Jake said...

I think we should simply clean house for real this time. No Columbia football head coaching change has also come at the same time as an AD change. That's another red flag for me. Both need to go for us to really have a change. The new coaching search needs to be conducted by someone else who will keep Campbell, Ted Gregory, and the NHDC far, far, away from the process.

'57C said...

Some of Jake's red flags may well have an explanation other what he implies. Some:

Did Murphy start the search before she fired MW, thus the decision took longer than the impression Jake suggests?

If she knew and believed in PM, that's not necessarily a negative, given that he turned the BR around in 3 years. We'd be thrilled if the Lions' record in his 3rd year was anywhere near Cornell's third.

Gross's leaving may have had nothing to do with PM or fb, in general. Until more is known, pick up flag.



Anonymous said...

As a Dartmouth fan looking in on this blog, Red Flag #5 is tough to imagine. Brackett could, at times, be just as dynamic "outside" the offense as he was within it. All you need to do is witness the latitude that Buddy Teevens gives Dalyn Williams to understand how "game changing" that can be......not to mention that it is also highly entertaining to watch.

Jake said...

It's amazing to me how there are still people willing to defend Mangurian and Murphy. Geez, how much more do we need to lose by before you snap out of it? This is a historic collapse even by Columbia standards.

Anonymous said...

Not talking about hiring a replacement coach under cover, but a retired guy with top credentials with no hidden agenda. If possible, I would contribute a modest amount.

GP

Jake said...

GP:

I like your idea. Employ a carrot and stick policy. Keep this losing administration, and we withhold donations. Hire someone good, and will donate a load!

Anonymous said...

Don't get me wrong Jake, my son is still all in with the coaching. I on the other hand think Murphy is committing a crime by watching what is happening every week on the field. She should have been long gone 3 years ago. Personally she is not the definition of an AD. I still admire my son and his teammates though for going out there each week . ( when you know damn well it's got to be hard).

Jake said...

He'll be even more "All in" with a coach who isn't a borderline sociopath. Everything about this guy was wrong from day one... I'm sick about how patient I was with all of it. Believe me, there are more than the 17 red flags that I listed out there. It's almost as if Murphy saw our pleas for a new coach when Norries was here and she decided she'd punish us with someone worse. Take THAT bloggers!

Anonymous said...

Jake,
I agree, but not probable in near future. For this debacle to continue another year is ludicrous.
GP

Anonymous said...

ugh, point of clarification..Mangurian didnt turn the BR around. He used other coache's recruits and had a slightly better than 500 winning percentage and his recruits set all time lows at Cornell.
he did however turn around CU from an improving team to one that is statistically the worst in the Nation...kudos to him.
two scoops of chocloate one scoop of vanilla.

Anonymous said...

Jake,
If you and your bunch can pull this off, before the roof caves in on CU FB,
I for one will send you a case of your favorite libation. Will be worth the price to get some sleep on Sat. nights.
GP

Anonymous said...

Jake, it seems to me that there are incidents or that you have proof on other things than the 17 stated. Are you holding back something we should know?

Concerned Parent

Anonymous said...

I'm answering on this current post by Jake to the parent who insulted Lion alums on the previous comment scroll. He or she told us that we should:
"Take your losing history and go somewhere else" because we are no longer needed or wanted and Coach M and his team are creating a winning history that we will see very soon."
This is my 60th-plus season of Lion football fanaticism. I've
seen countless games, starting with the first game of my freshman year, home and away, by riding the subway, or driving for hours, and even flying numerous times. When that wasn't possible, I've watched on TV or listened on radio. I knew football players as a student and later as an admissions volunteer. All were good students, good players, good people. I do not blame the student-athletes. I cannot explain the losing and it is not enjoyable, but I relish the good times and I can never switch off my loyalty to CU sports. By the way, I'm a
College parent as well as an alum.
It is so harsh for that parent to tell me to get the hell out of town that it's almost humorous. But I want to thank his son for his devotion to Lion football. And I sincerely hope the parent is correct when he states flatly that he and Coach M are creating a new history of winning. Doesn't look like it so far but I've been waiting almost 65 years...I can wait a few more. As the old saying goes, "I should live so long!"

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Thank you for your kind words to our past and present players.

Jake said...

Not really holding anything back. I really DON'T know about the Father Valenti situation, so I have not commented on it. And as far as the early morning practices, I sincerely do not know if they're hurting the team. I know both of the above could be construed as red flags, but not quite yet by me. Besides, 17 should be enough.

Mitch S.'68CC said...

Excellent summary, Jake!

It's painful to see B Campbell criticized here, even if deserved. He had graduated when I was at CU but he was frequently mentioned (Lionized! yuk yuk) as a paragon of skill and conditioning, playing as a 170 pound guard. Now he just seems like part of the establishment.

Unfortunately, there is no place for Campbell's type of player in today's game, with OLs allowed to use their hands and cut blocking prohibited or frowned upon.(Cut different from chop blocking, in which the target is already engaged by another player.) Unsightly as it is, huge weight in and of itself has now become an advantage. This is the direction the game has taken. Perhaps as in ancient Rome, people like to see elephants in the arena. Or, as 220 pound defensive end and NFL great Fred Dryer put it, "any big bartender."

Anonymous said...

there is more bad news to come- I'm sorry to say. the team has a problem we have not yet heard about publicly. when we do, there will be shaking heads harder than ever before

Anonymous said...

Jake
I crown you the King #### stirrer

Jake said...

Yeah, it's me... not the 56-0, 69-0, 53-7 losses. Clearly the problem is not the losing, the problem is some fans like me who want better.

WOF said...

Jake,

I know you've seen enough of Coach M and having not seen a game I can't comment on that, but the problem is way bigger than the coach. I think you would also agree with that...

Jake said...

Yes, it's the athletic director too.

Anonymous said...

Jake
Please tell me exactly your beef with the AD? Just because you don't agree with all of her decisions and she doesn't do everything you suggest ,you condemn her. Why would you think she has anything but all of the programs best interests?

Anonymous said...

Please stop with the greg toal nonsense. Great person great high school football coach. College is totally different. A.k.a. ncaa rules? Recruiting nationwide? Ever hear of those things?

Anonymous said...

Does everyone here know that opposing head coaches tell recruits and parents to view this blog and see all the negative comments here? I heard it firsthand from a head ivy coach that they use this tactic while I was on the road recruiting for another school. Smarten up guys! You did the same crap with wilson and your doing it now. It just undermines the hard work coaches do in recruiting.

Anonymous said...

More bad news to come? Not more twitter posts!!!

Jake said...

My beef with the AD? 10 years and not ONE winning Ivy season for football or men's basketball. Period.

Anonymous said...

That's good enough for me.
GP

Anonymous said...

I agree Jake one of the jobs of an AD is to be on top of her sports program. Any other AD in college would have already been fired with such a loosing record. I think it's on her shoulders.

Jake said...

If the AD and her staff worked as hard at winning as they do at shooting the messenger, we'd have lots of championships by now.

Anonymous said...

Can someone tell us what the "new" news is? At very least, you should contact Jake dircetly. You owe that to us.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Jake! GREAT stuff!

Anonymous said...

Wow! Quite an accomplishment for Pete in just under two years. I don't know if I should laugh or cry!

LionEsq said...

You guys plainly do not understand the AD's job, or Campbell's role. The commentary here has become shameful yet again, under Jake's leadership. Don't bother to respond to me.. I'm leaving the echo chamber, not coming back. To those who read this blog out of curiosity, there are those of us who do not accept losing, but also do not share the unstinting hostility and lack of judgment expressed here. This is a small cabal of borderline personalities who are NOT representative of Columbia or its athletics program. The record is problematic, but if you look more closely than this blog, you will see people - supportive, generous, reasonable people - who support the school and its athletic programs, and who are working constructively to make meaningful change, successfully in other sports, regrettably not yet in football. The student- athletes and their parents are the biggest part of it, and new recruits join this movement - salute to all of you. I do not know if the current coach has the answers, because - like the most hostile posters here, Jake included - I do not have the inside information to be able to judge what is going on, only the plainly unacceptable results. The people who know what's going on beneath the surface will have to decide the next steps and whether they are to be taken with or without PM. Plainly, the opinionaters here don't have that knowledge. Take what they say with a large chunk of rock salt. (Just keep it away from out collective wounds.). Over and out!

Anonymous said...

Jake, am I correct ?...did you blog that the coach is a borderline sociopath?
Yo are f++king out of control !! Let's just say that you don't like the guy or the woman who hired him and leave it at that. Your degree from old CU is not a n M.D.

Anonymous said...

Last poster was right on.

Anonymous said...

This is football. Conventional wisdom is that a losing record is the head coach's fault. Man up and replace him, or fire both the football coach and the athletic director and start fresh. Nothing could be worse than the current situation at Columbia. And nothing except firing the head football coach is expected.

Anonymous said...

"Last poster was right on" refers to Lion Esq., now three back.

Anonymous said...

Now 4 back :)

Anonymous said...

Make that 6 back...aw what the heck, BEAT YALE!

Anonymous said...

Do the AD employees defending their department on this blog realize how bad that makes the AD look? I know that they're worried about keeping their jobs but this is pathetic. You're part of a catastrophic organizational failure. This lobbying to keep your jobs with these silly defenses is humiliating. Have some dignity and move on. Just go.

oldlion said...

Step one is to fire Murphy. Who is protecting her? Is it Bollinger? Campbell? Then the new AD can and should decide who to hire or fire. I would suggest that the way to go is to write letters to Bollinger. If he gets enough of them, including a few from major donors, perhaps that will be accomplished. If we could clone Boretti I would make him the AD.

Anonymous said...

Are there really red flags flying over CU?

Anonymous said...

Yes, over the sports facility it has red Cornell flags

Anonymous said...

Hopefully Yale will be throwing lots of passes to us this year. We should practice catching them this week. Maybe they will let us jump on their fumbles too.

Anonymous said...

I can't fault Jake for describing his actions as sociopathic...the incident at Brown where he, again, ranted and raved and was, again, out of control related not only to filming from the sidelines but also the guy had sent up someone earlier in the week to take pics inside the visitors' locker room to see where he could plug in his projector for a halftime review of the firt half filming..apparently you are not allowed to use such action filming at halftime but that wasn't going to stop PM...boy, this guy is out of control

Anonymous said...

What I would be interested in hearing from the Coach Mangurian supporters is this: what has he done well in his tenure as Head Coach? Why is the Columbia football program better off today than it was two years ago? Why are the players who committed four years to Columbia under Coach Wilson better off now under Coach Mangurian? I agree than simply focusing on a win-loss record 15 games into a coaching tenure may not be fair. And anyone can second guess play calling. But what has Coach Mangurian done that makes you proud that he is our Coach?

Anonymous said...

Not really a fan of the constant lunacy of this blog..but I do share some "misgivings" regarding PM. I think it is as simple as this: he's an a-hole. Why are people surprised when a-holes act like a-holes? Fair comeuppance for a guy that worked behind the scenes and probably on this very blog to get the last honorable head football coach (rightly or wrongly) fired.

Anonymous said...

Please. Peye not turn any program around. He's a retread full of rhetoric. The highlight of his career was doing well with his friend Dan Reeves and the Atlanta Falcons the year they made it to the Superbowl. It's an experience not everybody gets. Peteis an effective offensive line coach but that's all he is all he ever will be. Some guys are like that, they just lack the qualities to be a good head coach.Thoug they put in the years experience to earn it.

Anonymous said...

What mean, nasty BS from the flunkies of the AD, calling the Lion faithful lunatics for being disheartened by the continuous collapse of this program! Who is this Lion Esq. joker who unloads a pile of crap and then says don't answer me, I'm leaving this board for good. This is the first time he ever posted! I'm answering and I bet big-shot Esquire is sneaking back to read it. He said there are some sensible guys, not lunatics like us who keep the program afloat, who are working behind the scenes to improve everything, so we should shut up and be patient, Are these the same geniuses
who've screwed everything up for 60 years?
You see, these insiders are Einsteins and we're all morons. That's why the team is doing so great. These insiders are the educated, cultured, elite alums and the rest of us are idiots. If we want to see Columbia in the NCAA championship game in January, we'd better shut up about Dianne and Pete and line up to buy our tickets.
If there really are any such geniuses working under cover, I think they would have given Dianne and Pete a few clues already but there is no evidence of that, not now and not for the past 60 years...just a new Nathan's Hot Dog Committee every few years .

Anonymous said...

You complain about the constant lunacy on this blog and then you propagate the lunatic notion that PM was involved is getting Coach Wilson fired and even used this blog to do it. Unbelievable. That is beyond nuts. Wilson got fired because he went 1-9 & 1-9 in seasons five and six. That was the only reason he was fired.

Anonymous said...

what does a 0-10 or 1-9 season with 3 of the biggest blow outs in Ivy League hisotry get you? Another year of coaching Columbia. Hooray Hooray.
The belief is that they will beat Yale and this will be Pete's salvation. One game and we have a salvation. i have to get myself a job like that.

W.F. said...

To Anonymous (who are many yet so repetitive) that started with "nasty BS from flunkies":

1. Lionesq has been a frequent poster - the only pile of crap is the one unloaded by you.

2. By "Einstein insiders", you must be referring to those who aren't pushing blatant lies regarding the program and staff. Not so Einstein, but they do hold the character you and Jake lack nonetheless. Want to argue that? Name ONE source of your above claims.

And while we are on the topic of sources (and lunacy) - hey Jake, want to explain to everyone the meaning of assault? Coach M "assaulted" a parent? False. How bout you state what that parent did post game too.

Washington "assaulted" a student? You must have been on campus that Saturday night and seen something that the police, campus cameras, and the NY judicial system missed.

"Nasty on the field public shouting match" post Brown game? Did you hear Estes? False again. And "later it was learned" what, Jake? Check the Ivy League disputes. It sure doesn't involve on field filming (don't believe me? Check their sideline policy)

3. "If you want to see Columbia in the national championship game in January"......

Perfect example of how little you or the 00 fan club knows. FYI the January championship is for those in the FBS, sweetheart, so don't worry about lining up to buy your tickets.

Attack away with your lies but let's get one thing straight about the last 60 years:

Athletic Directors have come and gone

Administrative Staff Members have come and gone

Coaches have come and gone

Players have come and gone

The only thing constant is YOU CRAZIES who feel so entitled, qualified and arrogant enough to post such falsehoods.

You have even stooped to attacking high school prospects.... New lows with no accountability of your behavior and the effects it has on this program publicly. Other Ivies now use this blog as a tool to show recruits the negativity surrounding the team. Great job guys! For those so quick to demand change on the field, you surely do your part by still behaving like losers off the field.

Anonymous said...

WF works in the athletic department

W.(T).F. said...

Thanks above. You strengthen my point that people boldly state claims lacking any truth on this blog! Sorry to disappoint you, but I am not employed by the University. I am sure You won't be the only one to accuse me of such, but let's redirect the witch hunt, people.

Besides, You could not pay me enough to deal with this BS.

Anonymous said...

WF- I hear you refuting all of Jake's points (some completely defenseless, yet you want to defend those actions)??? However, you neglect to highlight ANY positives that Pete has brought to the program???

You mention that ADs and head coaches come and go. Why don't you do us all a favor and take them with you? At some point, one would argue that "wins" are part of the AD and football Coach's responsibility; wouldn't you? Over the past 9 years our football and basketball programs have been under .500. You may hate the messenger, but these are facts! Why do we have to suffer? Should we be satisfied with mediocrity? No other ivy would put up with this.

Regarding Pete and his management prowess. At some point he has to look in the mirror and stop blaming everyone else. He's proven to be a bad recruiter, poor judge of talent (playing far too many underclassmen), and bad in-game tactician.

Just cut bait and let's all move on!

Thank you jake for highlighting all of these issues in such a short period of time.

Anonymous said...

That's too funny that Pete got upset at Estes for not allowing him to film on the sidelines. Hell, other teams could tell us the plays that they're running and we would still lose under this guy. Our offensive line has taken TWO steps backwards; which is hard to believe even by Columbia standards! I find it mind boggling how anyone can defend this guy?

On the flip side, Ray Tellier was a nice guy. He was a bad coach and mediocre recruiter, but he never lost the team. Shoop was a philanderer and Wilson proved not to be as advertised. Now we have a narcissistic coach who has lost the team and many (sane) alums. You do the math...

Anonymous said...

Simply put, there is a communication gap between his NFL. approach and these kids, that's it. He talks "at" them and not "to" them. This is completely unmotivating as a player.

Anonymous said...

Good call on Tellier! Spot on. Unfortunately, now he is a kiss-@$$ for Diane. Ray is still very good with alums, but he refuses to give an honest answer about Pete and the direction of the program. See, that's the problem, Dianne surrounds herself with "yes" people. When I recently asked Ray about his thoughts on what was going on with the program, he completely avoided eye contact and gave a generic response that "these things take time..." Thanks, your job is safe until you retire.

Anonymous said...

Some people have requested a consultant look at the program and the hiring process. The program is fine! We have all of the tools and the largest recruiting budget in the Ivy League! Just keep Ted Gregory, the NHDC, Dianne and Bill AWAY from the process. We need a coach who can recruit, communicate with the players, and someone who is a proven (collegiate) tactician!

Anonymous said...

If we get a consultant to look at the program, he/she/they would look over the past 20 years and see what are the constants... The AD, Bill Campbell, and the (Nathan's) Football Committee. we need new blood across the board, it's that simple.

Anonymous said...

As an assistant coach at Columbia for several years, I can honestly say that you are spot on with the yes man staff Dianne has assembled. As a result, the entire department suffers. There is no vision within Athletics, just psychotic policing of departmental rules and regulations. Dianne and her yes men are not helping coaches win they are standing in the way.

Anonymous said...

Brave Coach, very brave! thank you for your candor!

Anonymous said...

Jake, at some point, you got to say something about Yale. Last I checked, the game was still on for Saturday.

Jake said...

Scouting report on Yale is coming out as it does every Wednesday

Anonymous said...

I really don't understand all the pushing for Don Bosco's Greg Toal on this site. How many of you even understand what life is really like for students (non-jocks especially) at Don Bosco? Given that kind of atmosphere, I doubt very much Toal would have the proper understanding of the concept of the student-athlete.

I also have two words for anyone who believes that a successful h.s. coach will perforce have similar success in college: Gerry Faust, once of Notre Dame but before that a Catholic h.s. in Ohio.

And given that Bosco is 3-3 at this writing, does that mean we should instead be looking at whoever coaches either Paramus Catholic or St. Joseph's of Montvale, since both teams have better records this season than Don Bosco? (What about Bergen Catholic's coach, for that matter?)

I do not know what the answer to our football problems really is, but I suspect it's not at all Greg Toal, and I just wish his seeming claque on this site would just shut the hell up for the remainder of this season.

Anonymous said...

HS Coaches are a dead issue. Please move on.

Anonymous said...

Jake, you forgot all of his secret practices that alums are forbidden to attend. What the heck is that all about?

Anonymous said...

Cancelled trip to Ithica today. Saved about $1,000 and a lot of frustration.
Would gladly donate that much for solution to what I see as an ongoing
problem. Maybe Pat's management could quietly assign someone to evaluate the players and the coaching staff. I know that all NFL teams have college scouts that could do that after the season. WE NEED BIG TIME HELP!
GP

Anonymous said...

You know who HATES this Blog? All of the other Ivy Coaches! Why? Because they all want Pete to stay so that their 2nd and 3rd teams can finally Letter.

oldlion said...

What makes the most sense is an assistant at an Ivy school with a proven record of success, knowledge of the league as it is today and not ten years ago, an understanding of the uniques qualities of Ivy football, and an appreciation of the special qualities of Columbia. But first things first: Murphy has to go. Under her watch it will be difficult to hire the right person. So again I suggest sending letters to Bollinger and the trustees. Send enough of them and maybe we will be heard.

Anonymous said...

Vince Lombardi was a high school coach!
Don Bosco beat Paramus Catholic.
Toal has a record of 155-10
Gerry Faust had a winning record at ND.

Annonymous, you do not know football and probably never played.

Anonymous said...

Old Lion,
I agree, but an outside opinion from a professional "football mind would make the process of removing anyone a lot easier.
May I suggest a CC on the letter to Bollonger to one of the Krafts.
GP

Anonymous said...

If Columbia conducted their academic affairs the way they have dealt with horrendous football over the years, they would have lost their accreditation. If you are not comitted to big time changes in football then do the right thing and discontinue the sport. Right now this team would lose to a good high school team, it's an unmitigated disaster.

Anonymous said...

To WF who defended Esquire's BS by sliming me and other fans for our loyalty: The dishonesty of your mind is exposed by "correcting" me and saying Columbia
can't play for the NCAA championship because that's FBS--
Do you really think I don't know that, "Sweetheart"? In fact, thanks to people like you, Columbia can't play in any championship. Y0U are FBS (football BS) and good old plain BS too.

Anonymous said...

Yes, high school and college are entirely different. Some high schools always win and some colleges always lose.
Most of our players are 17 or 18 anyway.

Anonymous said...

None of you know anything. Just a bunch of whiners !
Thank goodness there only a few of you.

Anonymous said...

Remember the guy who gave up?
Nobody else does either!

Go loins! Keep fighting

Anonymous said...

I don't know anything about that Don Bosco coach that has been referenced. Can he actually coach football or is he just a good recruiter? There are few high school teams in the country that can draw/recruit from all across the state and even the country like Don Bosco. So not sure if he's as good of a coach as he is a recruiter. Either way, what Columbia could definitely use is a recruiting coordinator with a high school relationships and focus his recruiting efforts on the top academic/football high school programs in the country. These coaches or any coaches can't spend the time that is really needed on recruiting when they have day to day and game responsilities. You donating alumni that want to turn this program around and win an Ivy League Championship.... THAT is where you start!

Anonymous said...

Don Bosco is an anomalous situation. A Catholic high school that dreams of becoming (again, to some small extent) a New England-type boarding school. A school which purposely sought out a semi-national profile, in large part because its Catholic h.s. opponents in-state seemed so weak against it. And also because the likes of ESPN waved so much money at the school. (Surely Don Bosco spends more on football travel expenses for one game than any Ivy school does over an entire season.)

But some of those schools are much improved. Yes, Don Bosco beat Paramus Catholic (narrowly) this season. But PC has already made the playoffs and Bosco has not clinched a berth yet. And there are 4-5 Cathoic high schools in just northern Jersey alone (with at least two in the southern part of the state) which have this season challenged Don Bosco's usual (and usually presumed) dominance.


There is a seeming claque out there, though I suspect it's but one (two at best) wildly angry and extremely vituperative poster, fond of name-calling but maybe not so much of rational thinking, who has some kind of fixation on Don Bosco's Greg Toal to the point where he seems to wish his adoring head up Toal's ass. But the fact remains that nobody has any idea if Coach Toal even wants to move into college coaching (and if he does, by staying at DB for so long he's certainly going about it in a strange way).)

It should also be apparent to all concerned that success in high school coaching never necessarily translates at the collegiate level. And Gerry Faust's final record at ND was 30=26-1. Yes, we Columbia fans might indeed "settle" for something like that, but Notre Dame clearly did not.

Also, Don Bosco, unlike Columbia, does not actually recruit on a genuinely national level. I did notice a few years back, however, that Albany State in fact had three former Bosco players on its roster. I'll leave it to others to decide if that indicates that Greg Toal's charges are academically qualified for Ivy football. Bergen Catholic, rather famously, does have a sort of "pipeline" to Penn over the last several years. But then, tiny St. Mary's of Rutherford has long had a similar relationship with Notre Dame. In fact, the father and uncle of St. Mary's currently successful coach played for ND (as did he, I believe). So instead of Toal, the angry and desperate pushing for Toal might instead plausibly consider contacting St. Mary's Coach Sheridan.

Anonymous said...

I rest my case! Your response was a great endorsement!

al's wingman said...

I would rather have a coach who owns up to his shortcomings than a guy who thinks he can do no wrong. Same approach in business. The CU administration has failed in this instance. They have failed to acknowledge the visibility the football program brings. If you don't like negative comments on the internet own up to your mistakes, hire someone with real credibility and who wil inspire student athletes to excel. Pete Manguruan is not that man. You can delude yourselves all you want but wishing won't make it so.

Anonymous said...

Has toal ever nationally recruited? How about ncaa regulations? You have no clue.

Anonymous said...

Just a question how many of you ever have coached college ball? I rest my case...

Anonymous said...

what case? that you picked the wrong candidate to run the football program?

Jake said...

I've never been to med school either, but when I see a surgeon put a guy's elbow where his head should be, I sue!

Anonymous said...

The AD trolls on Jake's comment board are hilarious. " Has Toal recruited nationally? What about ncaa regs. you have no clue."
Toal probably has forgotten more about ncaa regs than Murphy ever knew. But nobody's asking for Toal. We.re asking for a professional Ad and coach, not the amateurs we always get.
Has Murphy ever recruited nationally for a football coach?
Can we get rid of the Nathan's Hotdog Committee and get some real recruiters? And you AD trolls say we fans don't have a clue? The AD and her staff don't have a clue, that's why CU fans have suffered for 60 years.
You AD trolls are the whiners and losers.
CAN YOU READ? Do you know hat a Won-Lost record is? Then do your jobs and stop attacking the loyal fans.

Anonymous said...

Wrong I didnt pick the case I was stating that all I ever hear on this blog are guys complaining about coaches. I was asking how many of you have coached since all u seem to do is profess how it should be done

Anonymous said...

Hey buddy I am not an ad. I am a college football coach for over 20 years who DID produce one of the few all americans at columbia. Smarten up!

Anonymous said...

if you are Ray Tellier then you have been down this road before, losing badly your first 2 seasons and having 1 fantastic season overall. You are a good guy and you treated your players a lot better then what the guys are getting now.

as for. being a backseat coach, you bet I could do better than Pete. anyone on this forum could except the ad trolls.

Anonymous said...

Toal said it would be an honor to coach Columbia.

Anonymous said...

Toal said it would be an honor to coach Columbia.

Anonymous said...

Good luck against the Blue Devils!

Anonymous said...

Stop! Stop! Stop! With the Toal comments. He's a 60+ yo HS lifer who has HS kids lining up to attend that football factory so they can get their shot at a DI scholarship. And they'll continue to do that long after he's retired. They win because they have a great deal more talent than everyone else they play. The majority of this talent shows up at his door begging to pay to attend that school.

He's NEVER recruited at the college level and doesn't have a clue about how to do so in the Ivy League.

Then when you factor in the alumni circuit, spring football, and other "non-football" (non X & O's) related activities it's way to late for that old dog to learn these new tricks.

He would be the BIGGEST disaster in recent history in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

All these young guys come in and get jobs over old seasoned vets! It's age discrimination!